It’s Not A Matter of ‘Should We Legalize Marijuana’ — It’s A Matter of ‘How We Legalize’

Following Tuesday night’s defeat of Prop. 19, I made the following statement to the press:

“Throughout this campaign, even our opponents conceded that America’s present marijuana prohibition is a failure. They recognize that the question now isn’t ‘Should we legalize and regulate marijuana,’ but ‘How should we legalize and regulate marijuana?’

A just-released, comprehensive post-election poll of California voters strongly supports this sentiment, and further points towards the likelihood of passing a successful marijuana regulation measure in 2012.

Among some of the polls findings:

* Fifty percent of California voters, regardless of how they voted on Prop. 19, “think the use of marijuana should be made legal.”

* Further, of those voters who rejected Prop. 19, more than 30 percent believe that “marijuana should be legalized or penalties … should be reduced.”

* A majority of Californian voters (52 percent to 37 percent) believe “laws against marijuana do more harm than good.”

* Finally, the poll reaffirms that victory at the ballot box comes down most of all to voter turnout. The survey reports, “If youth had comprised the same percentage of the electorate on Tuesday as they do in Presidential election years, Prop. 19 would have been statistically tied.”

You can read more here:

Despite rejecting Prop. 19, Californians lean toward legalizing marijuana, poll finds
Via The Los Angeles Times

California voters rejected Prop. 19, but a post-election poll found that they still lean toward legalizing marijuana for recreational use and, if young voters had turned out as heavily on Tuesday as they do for presidential elections, the result would have been a close call.

The survey, conducted by the polling firm Greenberg Quinlan Rosner, suggests that California voters had qualms with this initiative, but remain open to the idea. A majority, 52%, said marijuana laws, like alcohol prohibition, do more harm than good.

“There’s a fair amount of latent support for legalization in California,” said Anna Greenberg, the firm’s senior vice president. “It is our view, looking at this research, that if indeed legalization goes on ballot in 2012 in California, that it is poised to win.”

Voters think marijuana should be legalized, 49% to 41%, with 10% uncertain, the poll found, but were evenly split over whether they thought it was inevitable in California.

“The question about legalizing marijuana is no longer when, it’s no longer whether, it’s how,” said Ethan Nadelmann, the executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance. “There’s a really strong body of people who will be ready to pull the lever in the future.”

The poll also found that a quarter of those who voted on Proposition 19 had considered voting the other way, suggesting that a different initiative or a different campaign could change the result.

“We have fluidity,” Greenberg said. “The issue does not have the kind of hard and fast kind of polarization that we’ve seen with other so-called moral or social issues.”

Among voters who opposed Prop. 19, 31% said they believe marijuana should be legalized or penalties reduced, but they objected to the some specifics of the initiative.

The poll did not probe what it was about the measure that did not appeal to these voters. “Among the no votes, we’re seeing a significant proportion who we believe will ultimately support marijuana legalization in the future,” Nadelmann said.

Prop. 19 would have allowed adults 21 and older to grow up to 25 square feet of marijuana or possess up to an ounce. But it also included a provision to protect marijuana users from discrimination that opponents, including the Chamber of Commerce, ridiculed. They claimed it would allow nurses and bus drivers to come to work stoned, which the campaign disputed.

The poll found some evidence that this issue may have cut into the initiative’s support. Voters said by 50% to 44% that employers should have the right to fire workers who test positive for marijuana even if they arrive sober and ready to work.

The initiative was the brainchild of Richard Lee, a medical marijuana businessman in Oakland who paid professionals to draft the measure and made the key decisions on its approach.

Lee chose to give cities and counties the power to approve marijuana sales, not the state Legislature, a system that would allow a patchwork approach much like medical marijuana. The poll suggested that voters prefer that local control approach, finding that 44% trust city and county governments more to control marijuana, while 38% trust state government more.

Greenberg Quinlan Rosner surveyed 796 voters who participated in the election by phone between Oct. 31 and Nov. 2. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

In short, the key now isn’t to convince voters that marijuana prohibition is a failure, but to find a consensus among voters regarding what is the best alternative.

65 thoughts

  1. A lot of people (the young people that, “didnt turn out”) were against prop 19, believing that it would pave the way for industrial grown rather than small scale farming which can easily be done organically and with little environmental impact. It pretty much is summed up here:

    http://votetaxcannabis2010.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-pro-pot-activists-oppose-2010-tax.html

    Personally i was all for prop 19 but i could see how these facts deterred some voters.

    [Editor’s note: Unfortunately your link is to self-interested, discredited and dishonest arguments put forward by what will be weird footnotes in Cannabis Prohibition’s long history…these folks claim they’re against the ‘corporate’ grows and government control…but do you see them protesting Oakland ceding seven acres of land to create four separate 60,000 square foot ‘corporate’ grows (that cost a minimum of $200K a year to hold the permit) or counties in CA banning outdoor cultivation of their medicine?

    No…you don’t. Odd, don’t you think?]

  2. I’d like to see something protect recreational smokers in California that is similar to the Ravin decision of ’75 in Alaska.

    Let people grow and smoke at home in private. That’s what Nixon’s advisory board recommended. “Private use of cannabis” is in my opinion just as important a slogan as “Tax and regulate cannabis”. Nixon hated that term, “Private use of cannabis”, I say use it against him and his clones.

    The Drug Testing industry is pure evil, and it’s unclear to me whether to concede that provision in 2012. It would at least limit the problems of a stoner to job-related only. Maybe it would encourage companies to relax their draconian standards if we at least give them the choice.

    While the decrim. bill was a step forward, it is still flawed. Of course, any harsher penalties are even more ineffective.

    There are problems with the new decrim. law; it basically makes teens and young adults feel “content” with the fact that they risk nothing by smoking in public… they worry about a more regulated market denying them that perceived “freedom” of being able to smoke in public… in lax areas of the state.

    I believe a regulated market will allow for the proper smoking etiquette to be established.

  3. 1. THC blood limit to define impairment for a “stoned driver”. It can even be a bogus level; GOD forbid some ppl would do some research on to marijuana to find if this level is valid. This is better than “no limit, the sky is limit, EVERYONE IS GONNA BE DRIVING HIGH” scare tactic.

    2. Not count on the Medical Marijuana Cartel. Get more conservatives on our side.

    3. Leave employee toking rights out of the initiative. Lets change that later through reform and the courts. Legalize first!

    This coupled with more young voters is a sure landslide.

  4. Don’t also forget the greedy clubs and growers who voted this down and still will vote down any legislation which stands between them and easy money.

  5. Don’t forget to address the parents who were afraid their kids would start smoking pot if the measure had passed. We need to get rid of this illusion that they’re keeping their kids safe by going after stoners. “Yes on 19” should’ve hammered parents on the fact that it’s easier for kids to get marijuana than booze instead of briefly mentioning that fact in their ONE TV ad. Check out my anti-prohibition ad :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35v_oeK8nE0

    I also envision another ad. We see a guy in his late teens/early 20?s – a scruffy-looking character – selling weed to a kid who’s about 12 or 13. As the commercial begins, the kid walks away. The dealer looks at the camera and says, “I HOPE they don’t legalize weed. I’ve got a business to run; clients who count on me and money to make.” Then another aouple of kids walk up and he starts talking to them. Cut to the first kid walking down the street with his bag of weed. The kid looks at the camera and says, “I HOPE they don’t legalize weed. No one’s gonna believe I’m 21 for another 5 years at LEAST; even if I CAN find a good fake ID.” Then the voice-over guy says “Prohibition: Giving you the illusion of protecting your kids from marijuana since 1937. Vote Yes on 19.”

    You could also have another commercial with a guy who looks like he’s from a Mexican drug cartel. He looks at the camera and says, “I HOPE they don’t legalize weed. I’ve got a business to run.”

    Actually, what they should do now is make those same commercials, but instead of the characters saying “I HOPE they don’t legalize weed.”, have them say “Thanks, California!”. They could also show employees from under-funded government programs and have them say “Thanks, California. We didn’t need that money anyway.”

  6. Every pro-marijuana organization needs to come together NOW and start working on 2012 to capitalize on the building momentum for legalization. Please NORML, MPP, Drug Policy Alliance, Prop 19 people, ect come together and organize supporters. We need to stand up, donate money, lobby, organize rallies and get marijuana legalized sooner rather than later. There needs to be a “Plan of Action” put together that will make 2012 our L-Day, legalization Day!!

  7. One more thing, everyone please give as much money as you can to NORML or MPP, etc. Just give up “half a sack” and donate $25 to join NORML. It will save us all money in the long run if we get legalization.

  8. thinking about these statistics causes me to believe that the reason it was voted down was the same reason its not moving forward here in CT. People had thought it would never happen, not lazy, but self defeated. I think it will pass in 2012 by the merit that the 500,000 people who didn’t vote this year will come out with confidence along with the Presidential election.

  9. I wished I have a joint in my personal cookie jar to get over this, but my cookie jar has been empty for the past three years. Lets make 2012 a better year.

  10. * Further, of those voters who rejected Prop. 19, more than 30 percent believe that “marijuana should be legalized or penalties … should be reduced.”

    * A majority of Californian voters (52 percent to 37 percent) believe “laws against marijuana do more harm than good.”

    Proof Mr. Armentano that the reason why legalization failed was because of the wording of Prop 19. We must either write a better one, or convince people that the regulations in such a bill are OK.

    However, you write over and over how our government is greedy/corrupt/wrong/however you want to put it… but you think all of a sudden when the legalize it that they will REGULATE marijuana distribution lacking greediness/corruption/what have you. Magically government will be our friend after 100 years of prohibition.

    NO. Legalization is inevitable. State governments (and of course the Feds) want an upper hand. THEY want their lawyers and lobbyists to write the bill in THEIR favor, not in ours. THAT is why so many people didn’t come out to the polls for Prop 19.

    So your job is to either petition for a better written bill. Or convince those who think like I do otherwise.

    [Editor’s note: Who is ‘we’. You? NORML? NORML didn’t write or pay for the initiative to get on the ballot…If you want to provide your college/amateur prognostications about how you’d prevail political victory, direct them to the Prop. 19 campaign.]

  11. And like I said, you write in one article how corrupt and bad our government is… and then when you write about Prop 19 you magically think government is going to REGULATE marijuana distribution and consumption in our favor. Many of us don’t buy it.

    [Paul Armentano responds: Yawn. If you really think that cannabis with be the one retail good, the one commercially produced and consumed commodity that it NOT subject to some form of state/federal/local regulations then keep dreaming. Even medical marijuana in California is subject to local regulations (zoning laws, business licensing, etc.) and retail taxation.]

  12. I am a non toxic plant I enrich the soil I grow in I clean the atmospher You know co2.I can give you carbon neutral fuel totally replace crude oil. etc. Heal you Shrink cancer cells and tumors. Search cannabis cures cancer. Show me a body. Who has made you to believe a lie.
    Be nice to put that cancer cure to the test while we’re in this debate. Wonder who might have enough to start the cure. Who cares.

  13. Wow !! I got to tell you . I saw ” Cops ” last night on TV & could not believe it . In Louisiana some guy was caught with a tiny little baggie of weed & he was treated like a criminal who blew up 20 churches all at the same time . It’s hard to believe this even happens
    anymore . Insane . I’m staying ” put ” right here in Cali. There’s three words for this injustice……
    Shocking backwards ridiculousness .

    Berkeley & other Cali. cities have passed new laws on taxing Marijuana this week . Regardless of Proposition’s 19 defeat some Towns out here ( Berkeley included ) are remaining defiant of the Federal Government by turning more vacant warehouses into grow houses creating employment & generating new taxes .

    Cannabis is rapidly evolving into a legitimate business . Even without a Governmental approval California is still moving forward toward legitimizing its legalization .

  14. “They claimed it would allow nurses and bus drivers to come to work stoned, which the campaign disputed.” and should dispute, what prevents the same nurses or bus drivers from coming to work drunk? A good work ethic–not a law!

  15. I want to point out that when an opponent says something like “I just don’t think this is the right way to legalize MJ”, then they *probably* (read: not definitely), they probably don’t support legalization in the first place, but merely want to appeal to a wider group and reach to those on the fence to get their votes against MJ legalization (to draw out prohibition as long as they can.)

    BTW, I think you guys here at NORML are doing a great job. If you continue to spread the truth about MJ over the next few years like you have been recently, and as this issue gets talked about more and more, people will come to their senses.

    I think that now it’s only a matter of 3 things:
    (1) Education and dispelling the ignorance and disinformation that is propping prohibition up,
    (2) Keeping anti-prohibitionists motivated,
    (3) and Time.

    Keep up the good work guys 🙂

    From,
    a non-smoker who supports legalization.

  16. https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

    write your Federal Representative and demand that by the voice of right reason, natural law, moral law, and constitutional law, they require the DEA to advance NORML petitions to reschedule cannabis, so that… and then give them your reason on why you think that should be the case.

    I say so that we have laws that reflect Truth. By definiton of an unjust law, cannabis prohibition, both in industry and in personal diet, are powerless laws, and are in fact no law at all. And if you care for your American Children, you wouldn’t force them to live those lies.

    God Bless
    Jeff Lucas

  17. We need more voters. to increase the number of voters in 420 communities we need to appeal to more people. We need to create more communities and make them larger then ever before. I have an establishment where i am trying to do just that. feel free to look at my website or contact me about my ideas.

    andy tats

  18. During my campaign for State Assembly in Wisconsin, I talked about hemp and cannabis with truth, honesty and compassion.

    Comprehensive marijuana laws, for Industrial Hemp, Medical Marijuana and Recreational Cannabis are needed.

    You are right on NORML, not should….but how…thanks for all you do.

  19. Okay.
    Can you run a series of conferences in different regions of the U.S. on different legalization transition plans? By series, I mean at a symposium of American intelligentsia, university and interested law enforcement reformers, also with the public invited to present. Prizes, honorarium, educational grants for attendance available. Regions should decide at state transition levels, as well as also prizes for the top three federal legalization transition plans.

    Get some press. Get some headlines. Give ratings a boost.

  20. We all know this is not going to be easy.Maybe time to start E-MAILING YOUR LOCAL, STATE and FEDERAL REPS.(congress and senate)The more we complain and persue this course of action the sooner we can bring about the repeal of the dug war. BUT WE ALL HAVE TO DO THIS!!!

  21. Poll this, research that, study those, count them, manipulate this, confirm that ,tax this, regulate those GEZZZZZZZ Only man could fuck up a beautiful plant like cannabis ! Just free the flower !

  22. Prop 19 just simply needs to be re-worked and re-worked so it’s fair for all involved the way it currently was proposed wasn’t fair and had major problems. It’s all about not having a monopoly and big scale grow OPs putting the smaller mom and pop OPs out of business and taking their lively hood away from them. It’s all about creating jobs here people and Prop 19 would take that away from many growers in Cali if I knew money was being taken out of my pockets and food being taken off my family’s table because of large scale OPs I’d vote no too!

    [Editor’s note: You either didn’t read Prop. 19 or don’t understand the language therein. There was nothing in Prop 19 that created a corporate structure to displace small time growers (BTW, is protecting the absurdly high profits of small time cannabis cultivators who sell into the black and grey [medical cannabis] markets a good reason to maintain prohibition laws, mass arrests, incarcerations, civil forfeitures, drug testing without cause, etc.??).

    Also, under medical cannabis in California (and in other states like CO, NJ, DC, etc…) the corporate take over (and this is worse than cartel, gang and mafia control of some cannabis distribution channels profiting mightily from Prohibition laws and who don’t pay taxes?) is well underway with the city of Oakland ceding seven acres of land to create four massive, 60,000 sq. foot commercial growing operations. Other cities and counties in CA, and other states, will likely soon follow as they’re promised $200,000 a year in upfront licensing fees and taxation all year-round on the sale of the cannabis for adults who’ve sought a doctor’s recommendation to use cannabis as medicine from each of the large ‘corporate’ grows.

    Your criticism of Prop 19 is both incorrect and short-sighted. You want ‘Mom and Pop’ grows to still exist, even under medical cannabis? Then you best start supporting legalization efforts like Prop 19, or the small-time producers of cannabis will soon be gone as only the ‘tomato’ model for cannabis allows for small, independent growers to create niche markets as ‘corporate’ ones will take the lion’s share of the market–as is the case with virtually all commodities, products and services no matter one’s ideals about how free markets should work.]

  23. Dear Brian,
    after reading your posts and digesting what you had to say all i can come up with is WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? no matter the language in any legalization proposal there will be people like yourself who cry “its not worded right” can you not understand ANY legalization is better than what we have now? unless of course you don’t want it legalized. nitpicking over stupid little details is very counterproductive.any argument against was disputed very well. quit believing the lies. I was not a fan of the 5×5 garden size regulation but i realized that if its legal than i could have a 15×15 garden and the cops wouldn’t be able to bust me. why, because the smell or whatever other bullshit excuse they wanna use to search my house wont work anymore. that’s the real golden lining of legalization no more harassment, no more civil rights violations in the name of prohibition. if you truly want a better bill well then write one.who knows you might do an excellent job.

  24. Paul is spot on, in the 1st comment here. Everyone should read that link he put up. I don’t think very many of the comments are from people that live in California. I voted against it because it was a flawed prop and we can come up with a better one, like Jack Herer’s prop. This was not progress, it was a corporate takeover. Wake up people in other states and get with the program. Fix your own states and quit complaining that we missed the boat. We’re on the boat and sailing away to a greener day. If you can’t change your state move here we like intelligent people who partake. Peace and Puffs.

    [Editor’s note: Corporate takeover?? Wow… Shame on you for voting to keep arresting cannabis consumers, cultivators and sellers en mass in CA! Thanks for being so clueless about your own freedom and perpetuating Cannabis Prohibition by the government and law enforcenent in California! When you and your friends get busted, don’t contact NORML looking for legal help or sympathy, because you’ll only have yourself to blame.

    Again, for the majority of cannabis consumers in CA and around the United States, thanks for siding with the government, law enforcement, Scientologists, the alcohol and ‘rehab’ industry and Senator Diane Feinstein, thanks for nothing on election day. Don’t you feel disgusted keeping such company? Don’t you feel strange siding with Prohibitionists and voting against your own self interest?? Or, is your self interest to keep charging $150-$600 for an ounce of readily grown vegetable matter that costs $1 a gram to produce indoors?]

  25. Why can’t the Medical shops stay open if pot is legalized, would’nt they then be able to stay open and sell to everyone over 21 with proper ID? Then everyone could “have their medicine” without a perscription. Can Legalization get on a federal ballot in 2112?

    [Editor’s note: 1) There is no such thing as a federal ballot initiative…and there are about 24 states that allow for the direct voter initiative process. 2) Medical access for patients post the passage of legalization legislation or initiatives will only enhance patient access and at considerably lower costs.]

  26. I am so sick of this. “How we legaize”? WTF people? TAXING? Its a plant ! JUST FUCKING LEGALIZE IT ! 21 and over, no proving it to minors! Thats it..thats all!!

    Evey thing is this country revolves around money…how can I make a buck off this…until then people can suffer….mentality is kill this country.

    Why we let these people in government suck our lives from us on every turn is beyond me. They are CRIMINALS in suits , living high on the hog off our stupidity! Waqke the hell up.!

  27. 20.JDNCGAZ Says:
    November 5th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
    We all know this is not going to be easy.Maybe time to start E-MAILING YOUR LOCAL, STATE and FEDERAL REPS.(congress and senate)The more we complain and persue this course of action the sooner we can bring about the repeal of the dug war. BUT WE ALL HAVE TO DO THIS!!!

    Complain all you want. Thats all your doing is complaining and you are just as easily ignored.What part of this arent people understanding?

    Keep asking for your freedom when your a slave is just that….’ asking’.

    You get whipped and told to get back to work slave.

  28. I think they should use the TAX STAMP idea they originally had but never issued to anyone. This aint rocket science, ‘how’ should we make marijuana legal? Just say it is

  29. I hate to say it but after the failure of prop 19 the prohibitionists are celebrating. It was a setback to the movement but it sure as hell raised a lot of attention nationwide. I see that as a positive.

    [Editor’s note: There is not much evidence of prohibitionists celebrating the near defeat of Cannabis Prohibition laws in CA, but, disturbingly, there are cannabis producers and sellers who’re celebrating the continued mass arrests and govt harassment in general of cannabis consumers by proudly exclaiming to have voted with the cops, govt and alcohol industry against ending Cannabis Prohibition.

    Very disturbing example of voting for one’s self-interests and not for the greater good of humanity…]

  30. I assume that state reps from San Francisco and Oakland are presently working on a bill that will be viable. I expect the state government will pass a law that correctly deals with production, quality, quantity, distribution, taxation, driving impaired and so forth. The Bay Area is leading the nation in this endeavor and they will continue to lead the way. It truly is not if they legalize cannabis for personal use but how they choose to regulate it. Let the debate continue. Thanks California for making this issue a very much talked about issue nation wide.

  31. I’d leave that question to the study groups and statisticians. They seemed eerily accurate in forecasting election results and ballot decisions.

    America today is composed of frightened people who see danger lurking in every little gopher hole. Despite setbacks, gradual progress continues to be made against Prohibition. Each little victory helps to turn the tide. Ending Prohibition will poll better every year. The holdouts are older conservatives who bought into government propaganda earlier in their lives. The more TV shows, magazine articles, and radio shows that portray marijuana in a rational, scientific light, the better. Anyone who tries it, knows it is better than booze and not as harmful as the government says and not worth spending billions to eradicate.

  32. What Proposition 19 are you talking about ?It lost ?

    Tee Hee He

    Workshop fields business questions on Eureka medical marijuana ordinance
    The truth doctor / The Times-Standard
    Posted: 11/05/2010 01:19:19 AM PDT

    About 50 people interested in learning what it will take to open a commercial medical marijuana facility in Eureka went to City Hall on Thursday to get their questions answered.

    Community Development Director Sidnie Olson, Councilman Jeff Leonard and Medical Cannabis Selection Sub-Committee member Paul Hagen hosted the workshop. Their goal was to set up potential business owners for success in applying for a conditional use permit to open a medical marijuana dispensary or production facility within the city.

    The Eureka City Council passed a medical marijuana ordinance that went into effect Sept. 3, allowing a limited number of medical marijuana dispensaries and processing facilities to open in the city. Modeled after Arcata’s ordinance, it implements a land-use based approach that also regulates personal patient gardens.

    Many in the audience Thursday hailed the ordinance as progressive, making Eureka a state leader in the process

  33. If you all voted Libertarians, like I did, then we won’t be thinking of how to legalize.Instead, we will be celebrating the New Year of 2011 as Marijuana Freedom Year! It’s that simple people! Do your research: http://www.lp.org/issues/crime-and-violence

    [Editor’s note: Does Senator elect Rand Paul, who claims to be a ‘Tea Party’ libertarian, support legalizing cannabis? Does he even support legalizing medical cannabis? Bottom line: Individual candidates, regardless of party affiliation, have to be vetted individually and not assumed they’ll be anti-prohibitionists because they claim to be libertarian.]

  34. Is the insanity in maintaining prohibition expecting it to go away, or is it in continually striving for legalization expecting that to happen?

    Look at the definition of marijuana to see exactly what would be legalized. It is in Section 802, Item 16 of the CSA.

    You will notice that part of the definition says what IS marijuana. You will also notice that part of the definition says what is NOT marijuana.

    Legalizing marijuana will not legalize that part – the most important part. Also, the definition will still exist as an affront to the Constitution.

    How will that part be legalized?
    By demanding a simple definition of marijuana,
    which actually shows respect for our Constitution:

    “The term ‘marijuana’ means all parts
    of the smoke produced by the combustion
    of the plant Cannabis sativa L.”

    With this definition, marijuana remains prohibited,
    while cannabis becomes legal again.
    Then reschedule.

    Google Talking Points for the Peloton.

  35. I remember reading about Prop 19 when first introduced and the feeling at that time was that it would no way pass, but set the stage for 2012.

    I also believe Prop 19 was key in the decision to decrease simple possesion penalties to an infraction. (IMO the anti’s will “wheel and deal” to delay full freedom:) That should at least decrease the harm done by the “cure” and maybe even lessen law enforcment interest. Also, LEAP has done a good job at making people aware of the fact that many police would really like to go after those who actually do harm to others.

    As electronic communication increases the number of those who favor legalization increases. This is not like abortion or other split opinions, where the number of for versus against is more evenly split regardless of age. With Cannabis, the generation that was lied to is the generation that is passing away, and the youth are aware of the lies- thus the number of those in favor continues to steadily rise.

    Note: Even middle aged people get crap from their parents if there is an attempt to discuss the topic. They can always be sent emails though 🙂

    So if there is to be a win in 2012, either it will be a generational win or the elder of our society need to be un-lied to. The most effective scares are known now. Those arguements can be addressed within two years. The difference is in being on the side that actually is supported by tests and data.

    One other thing that presumably would not be too costly (who could collect?) and keep the conversation flowing would be to have more challenges like on http://www.safertexas.org Money talks and it doesn’t immediately make people turn a blind eye to you, like an opposing opinion alone does. Even a “This is interesting.” is one way to get people to look at the site. The challenge itself provokes further consideration and lends validity to the statements. You sure won’t see any challenges to prove alcohol is safer than cannabis.

    Two years for getting the truth out.

    Prop 19 was just a battle…the War is not over.

  36. I think a good idea for the next election would be to have a separate initiative dealing with drug testing for employment. That way it wouldn’t stop people from voting for legalisation, but you still might be able to get rid of it.

  37. NORML should have a questionnaire for citizens on their opinion to legalize marijuana or some sort of survey

  38. #4 You got it right but there’s more to that slant. The Feds. have sent special agent to California for the past two years to help the defeat of marajuana legalization in any form. And poor Paul Armentano is trying to build the fire for voters in 2012 just a few days after the election. Don’t you get it folks, YOU WON! and some how you were made to believe that you lost. More money has poured into making a defeat for Pot Legalization than anytime before this year. From this point on, no amount of money will pay for fooling the mass population of California or any other State. What’d I just say? I said, the vote has been set against you pot supporters with Federally funded behind closed door organizers you will never ever know and who knows how much money it took to pay for this covert operation!

    This election proved a lot more than you know at first glance. It’s showing that no amount money is going to stop the Legalization process, it’s only slowed it down till next election folks!

  39. It’s Not A Matter of ‘Should We Legalize Marijuana’ — It’s A Matter of ‘How We Legalize’

    Look no further

    http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/library/studies/nc/ncmenu.htm

    A Final Comment

    In this Chapter, we have carefully considered the spectrum of social and legal policy alternatives. On the basis of our findings, discussed in previous Chapters, we have concluded that society should seek to discourage use, while concentrating its attention on the prevention and treatment of heavy and very heavy use. The Commission feels that the criminalization of possession of marihuana for personal is socially self-defeating as a means of achieving this objective. We have attempted to balance individual freedom on one hand and the obligation of the state to consider the wider social good on the other. We believe our recommended scheme will permit society to exercise its control and influence in ways most useful and efficient, meanwhile reserving to the individual American his sense of privacy, his sense of individuality, and, within the context of ail interacting and interdependent society, his options to select his own life style, values, goals and opportunities.

    The Commission sincerely hopes that the tone of cautious restraint sounded in this Report will be perpetuated in the debate which will follow it. For those who feel we have not proceeded far enough, we are reminded of Thomas Jefferson’s advice to George Washington that “Delay is preferable to error.” For those who argue we have gone too far, we note Roscoe Pound’s statement, “The law must be stable, but it must not stand still.”

    We have carefully analyzed the interrelationship between marihuana the drug, marihuana use as a behavior, and marihuana as a social problem. Recognizing the extensive degree of misinformation about marihuana as a drug, we have tried to demythologize it. Viewing the use of marihuana in its wider social context, we have tried to desymbolize it.

    Considering the range of social concerns in contemporary America, marihuana does not, in our considered judgment, rank very high. We would deemphasize marihuana as a problem.

    The existing social and legal policy is out of proportion to the individual and social harm engendered by the use of the drug. To replace it, we have attempted to design a suitable social policy, which we believe is fair, cautious and attuned to the social realities of our time.

    We paid for this study, let us all take a more serious look at it.

  40. re;
    The poll also found that a quarter of those who voted on Proposition 19 had considered voting the other way, suggesting that a different initiative or a different campaign could change the result.

    “We have fluidity,” Greenberg said. “The issue does not have the kind of hard and fast kind of polarization that we’ve seen with other so-called moral or social issues.”

    Among voters who opposed Prop. 19, 31% said they believe marijuana should be legalized or penalties reduced,
    –but they objected to the some specifics of the initiative.–

    this shows ‘the devil’s in the details’ and the specifics of the initiative SUCKED.

    just like the last “decrim” effort in canada…
    as they debated it over many months, more and more restrictions were added, untill it was WORSE THAN THE STATUS QUO, and the pro pot people were all against it.

    we must stop trying to get the prohibitionist vote by going for one ounce only, with added penalties and restrictions.
    there are allready too many penalties and restrictions.

    i trust jack herer over george soros any day !!

  41. re; In short, the key now isn’t to convince voters that marijuana prohibition is a failure, but
    -to find a consensus among voters regarding what is the best alternative.

    we have known that for many years;
    –FULL LEGALIZATION–
    (that means removing the existing law, NOT WRITING MORE LAWS)

    not half-measures like ‘DECRIM’ or prop. 19 that just
    tangle us up in MORE LAWS.

    there is NO ‘ONE OUNCE’ or ’25 square feet’ limit for TOBACCO.

  42. Legalize on the tomato model. Under federal law one may produce up to a total of 200 gallons a year of beer and or wine. One may grow up to 1/10 of an acre of tobacco, that’s around 4500 sq. ft. not a paltry 25 sq.ft. A knowledgeable grower could produce close to 500 lbs. off a tenth of an acre. Apply this to cannabis. No sales to minors and all sales taxed at a nominal rate.
    In America losing an election by 9-10 points is a slaughter. Considering how close it was poll wise right up to election day it is obvious that there was vote fraud used to defeat the initiative. I would suggest that everyone familiarize themselves with how vote fraud is done,because the initiative loss has all the hallmarks of being defeated with vote fraud!

  43. Hear, hear! FULL LEGALIZATION! When I homebrew beer, there are no restrictions on where I brew it and in what volume in my household. I can drink the beer however I want, so long as I am 21. If my 15 year old brother is in the house, it does not matter.

    Now if I want to sell that beer, there are appropriate regulations. If I want to drive in my car after drinking beer, there are appropriate regulations.

    We need this common sense when it comes to a legalization bill. There has been 100 years of prohibition where government has been our #1 obstacle. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being skeptical about one of the first plausible relegalization efforts that our government might want to take advantage of.

    FOR THE RECORD: Sites like “stoners against prop 19” is run by lawyers for the medical marijuana industry with their own agenda. My biggest concern with that site (((and unfortunately Paul and anonymous editor are too defensive to hear me out and understand I am trying to improve their argument))) is that they do not go line by line through the bill and explain where in the written language supports their claims.

    HOWEVER, NORML is guilty of the same. I have seen some sites with less obvious sketchy ties (than stoners against) go line by line and try to break out down. Wouldn’t it be nice if NORML did this to counter some of the concerns?

    [Paul Armentano responds: NORML published numerous line-by-line rebuttals to these and other anti-19 myth sites. Just type in ‘stoners against legalization’ in the Stash search box: http://stash.norml.org/?s=stoners+against+legalization&submit=Search. NORML also published a word-by-word analysis of Prop. 19, which we publicized heavily:
    http://stash.norml.org/californias-prop-19-a-word-for-word-analysis.%5D

  44. Re 10 & 11

    Brian, with all due respect–I’m sick of comments like yours. You’ve come up with every excuse in the book why you didn’t support 19. Your premise that we shouldn’t legalize MJ if it’s taxed/regulated is completely flawed–and idiotic. How many times must it be explained to you that virtually every other commodity is taxed and/or regulated?

    That you have chosen to draw your “line in the sand” on this issue really P’s me off! Do you never drink beer, bought at the local convenience store? Do you never eat food bought at the grocery store? Do you never drive on paved streets and highways? Do you never drink water from your tap? If you do ANY of the above, then you’re a flaming hypocrite!

    (Or, it’s very possible you’re one of those greedy Med Clinic operators, who cares more about your own profit margin than everyone else’s freedom–despite all your rhetoric.)

    You are a traitor pure and simple.

  45. Pingback: Anonymous
  46. As you can see, this country is not ready to vote for cannabis. It’s not ready. The populace has been led to believe in outright lies, and they are not ready. No amount of “get out the vote” is going to do it. If we keep relying on ballot initiatives, every single one of us will be dead before we see this stuff legal. The country is not ready.

    We have to MAKE them ready. It’s not about voting. It’s about STANDING UP. Here. Now.

    It’s about every one of us taking a stand, intimately and personally with those around us in our lives, standing up for who we are.

    This is a battle that will be won on the GROUND, in CONVERSATION, and in ACTION. Only when the country is ready for cannabis will cannabis be legal again – and it’s our job to make them ready. It starts today, and here’s how:

    1. Purify your practice.
    Shed the false persona of the “stoner”. Ask yourself, “am I talking/moving/acting this way because it’s my expression of who I am, or because the stoner-movie media told me that this is how cannabis users behave?”)
    Return to the roots, the spiritual practice of cannabis. Use it consciously. With intention. Use it to heal, to re-establish connection with the divine, your uncorrupted self. Explore the unknown.
    2. Reclaim the language. Repeat after me: It’s not a drug, it’s a medicine. It’s not a war on drugs, it’s a war on medicine. It’s not prohibition, it’s an inquisition. It’s not legalize, it’s stop throwing people in fucking jail.
    3. Come out of the closet. Stop hiding, make sure every single person you know knows you use it. If they don’t know yet, tell them. And tell them why you use it. Tell them you enjoy it.
    4. Stand up for the truth. No more incrementalism. We want it legal, now. No more excuses (like only for medical patients with a subscription), no more wimping out (like “tax it” or “loosen the penalties”), no more additional laws, and no more state-by-state – we want the Controlled Substances Act repealed, end of story. And for god’s sake, STOP CITING POLL NUMBERS.
    5. Stop defending, and start putting opponents on the defensive. In a free society, the burden of proof is on those who would ban. Be aggressive. Don’t settle for mediocre answers. Demand they confront their lunacy. Anytime and anywhere you find inquisitionists, confront them, and don’t let up until they back down.
    6. Smoke in public. As long as there are no cops, the worst anyone can do is throw words at you. Engage them in civil conversation. Educate them.

    Every cannabis user can step up and personally fight for the truth. YOU can do this. WE ALL can do this. Stop waiting on NORML. Stop waiting on MPP. Stop waiting for the next election. The “political” process is just a thermometer, it’s not the thermostat. It merely measures the temperature, it doesn’t set it.

    WE set it. Each and every one of us. The adventure begins now!

  47. Listen guys the truth of the matter is this and simply this when it comes back around for voting just vote yes on the proposition for christ sake a small step forward is better than bein stuck in the same shit hole we’re in right. just let go of you flacid dreams of a fair or favoring bill expecially at a fedral level we all know if it doesnt benefit the feds more then its not gonna help us at all so lets start with progress not perfection guys. yes ideally we would all get to smoke pot free and clear but dont kidd yourself kids smokin pot is retarded it must be controled liken unto alcohol. all these parents that are worried about there kids smoking need to understand that it is there job to make sure there kids do the right thing not the governments on any level . just like with ciggarets or booze it is the responsiility of our nations parents to look after our collective youth. as far as the fedral governments scare tactic bullshit goes meet it with wisdom and knowledge not fleeting ignorance and foolish dreams. we as a people are responsible for the laws that govern us as a country that was the point of america or have we spent so much time supporting government ran propaganda that we forgott how th support us

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