(This is cross-posted in the Los Angeles section of Huffington Post – please feel free to surf over there and leave a comment that will be read outside our NORML forum.)
Yesterday on our daily webcast for NORML we interviewed Dale Sky Clare, a spokesperson for Proposition 19, the initiative that will ask Californians to vote on a very limited form of marijuana legalization. We discussed the latest polling on the initiative from SurveyUSA, showing a 50%-to-40% lead for the measure.
We dug through the demographics to find that older and more conservative people are the only groups more likely to oppose the measure (no, really?), support is greatest among the young and in the Bay Area (who knew?), and support among comedians named “Cheech” or “Chong” is approaching 100% (OK, I made the last one up.)
But there is one growing demographic group that no poll has begun to track: medical marijuana dispensary owners.
Since the Regulate, Control, and Tax Cannabis Initiative was mercifully truncated to a headline-friendly “Prop 19” by virtue of making it on the California ballot, I have been tracking on our NORML Stash Blog the stories of dispensary owners who are publicly opposing the legalization of the product they sell, even shelling out money they’ve made from selling marijuana to oppose its legalization!
Paul Jury just posted Legalize It? Ask a Guy Who Runs a Medicinal Marijuana Dispensary in which he speaks to Craig, a dispensary owner in Venice Beach, who is also opposed to Prop 19:
“I’ll give you two reasons,” Craig said. “One is big tobacco. Did you know that Phillip Morris just bought 400 acres of land up in Northern California? The minute marijuana becomes legal, they’ll mass produce and flood the market. And of course, they’ll add the same toxins they put in regular cigarettes to get you addicted, and very little THC, so you’ll have to buy more… In short, they’re going to ruin weed.” He gestured around his beloved shop, with every flavor of every strain, in its purist form, selling for at-cost prices. “I like the way things are now.”
Remember how alcohol prohibition ended in the 1930’s (probably not, but indulge me) and Anheuser, Busch, Coors, and Miller flooded the market with 3.2 beer and ruined alcohol? Wouldn’t it be nice if we could go to shops with every flavor of every micro-brew, in its purest form… oh, wait, I live in Portland, Oregon, the micro-brew capital of America and that’s what we have right now under alcohol legalization!
We have every flavor and potency of beer you can imagine plus people can go buy a kit and brew their own beer if they like. And there is wine, too, with a huge tourist industry that depends on people checking out vineyards and tasting endless varieties of vino. And there is whiskey, rum, tequila, vodka, brandy, and even super-potent Everclear in some states, all in their purest form, which is to say that used responsibly they won’t make you blind like a tub of Prohibition moonshine might.
The “Philip Morris / RJ Reynolds Toxic Addictive High-less Marijuana Market Flood” scare has been floating around the cannabis community like a stale hit of schwag for decades now. It’s a form of conspiracy theory thinking embraced by the kind of people who think you could plant 40,000 lbs. of explosives surreptitiously in a busy World Trade Center or convince all the world’s scientists and a very large soundstage crew to keep quiet about that faked moon landing for four decades. Here’s why it’s stupid:
- Prop 19 allows you to grow your own. If Philip Morris’ weed sucks, you’ll smoke your own or your friend’s.
- Prop 19 allows cities to consider sales. Bad toxic Philip Morris weed is the kind of competition a purveyor of hand-trimmed, non-keifed*, organic high-potency bud would want, wouldn’t she?
- Prop 19 allows cities to regulate production. They can dictate exactly what is or isn’t added to cannabis, how much is produced, by whom, and where.
- In order for Philip Morris to sell their weed, somebody has to want to smoke it. Nothing about Prop 19 makes Prop 215 or the dispensaries go away. In fact, it gives the existing dispensaries the potential to serve even more customers. So who’s buying this toxic addictive high-less marijuana?
No, if you want to really understand what is going on here, look back to that alcohol prohibition and ask yourself how excited Al Capone was reading the headlines trumpeting its imminent repeal. It’s not a perfect analogy, as Capone was a murderous criminal thug and these dispensary owners are law-abiding businesspeople. And yes, dispensary owners, like Craig, often help destitute cancer patients for free, though one could counter that Capone and his gangs gave out free turkeys on Thanksgiving. My main point is that both are businesspeople dealing in a prohibited product.
Or just look back to the article on Craig:
He gestured around his beloved shop, with every flavor of every strain, in its purist form, selling for at-cost prices. “I like the way things are now.”
“Last month,” Craig explained proudly, “there were 24 operating marijuana collectives in Venice. A month from now, there will only be two. And we’ll be one of them.” With that, he opened the door to the inner sanctum. The “product” room.
Now, if you ran a business where you could sell your product for $5-$15 per GRAM or $200 to $800 per OUNCE, and you only had to compete with one other business in your local area, would you be excited about the prospect of many more competitors and prices dropping as much as 80%? Most of your customers already got their Prop 215 recommendation, so it isn’t as if legalization is going to bring you enough additional customers to offset the change in business margins.
Prop 19 means that marijuana retailers become more like other retail businesses, instead of the loosely-regulated turnkey goldmines they have been. That’s what Craig doesn’t like. Well, that and kids smoking pot:
“Two, legalization will mean more fifteen-year-old kids smoking pot. … If they legalize marijuana, there’s no chance that fewer 15-year-olds will smoke. And there’s a good chance that more will. Anything that will probably make more 15-year-olds put substances in their bodies, in my opinion, is a bad thing.”
Really, the “What About the Children?!?” argument? Right now, under prohibition, 85% of high school seniors and 69% of sophomores (a.k.a. fifteen-year-olds) find it easy to get weed. Right now, under prohibition, kids say it is easier to buy marijuana than alcohol. So it appears to me that locking up healthy adults for their marijuana use hasn’t really done much to stop teens from getting and using pot. How about we try letting adults smoke a joint, and when they go to buy it, they buy it from a regulated shop where only adults are let in and all IDs are rigorously checked, you know, like that alcohol kids find harder to buy.
Besides, there is no reason to believe that youth use will increase. Since California passed Prop 215 in 1996, the regime Craig likes now, teen use of marijuana has decreased. Prop 19 makes the penalty for supplying weed to those under 21 as stringent as supplying alcohol to those under 21. And we’ve seen teen use of tobacco, a legal substance far cheaper and more addictive than marijuana, plummet in the past ten years through education, advertising restriction, social disapproval (no indoor smoking, for example) and strict ID requirements.
Craig and the other dispensary owners who oppose Prop 19 are the “I Gots Mine” element of the anti-legalization campaign. They’ve got the corner on a retail market worth billions, one that is only worth billions if you arrest 850,000 mostly-black-and-brown adults a year for participating in it. They’ve got their doctors happy to take a Benjamin or two to give you permission to use a drug safer than the aspirin you need no permission for. I wouldn’t want people to vote to change that, either…
…except that I think it’s just immoral to arrest people for smoking weed if we’re going to leave them alone when drinking alcohol. I don’t care if it is profitable to the state or detrimental to the dispensary industry – arrests for marijuana are wrong, period.
*”Kiefed” means to shake loose the crystals of THC from the product before packaging for sale. The crystals, or “kief” are collected and smoked or vaporized, and, being THC crystals, are very effective. Philip Morris will certainly need to use huge machines to process weed, which will certainly shake loose a lot of kief. One grower friend of mine says he will advertise for his prized buds with the slogan “Don’t let ’em thief the kief!”
they should inact some sort of regulation that says no addictive substances can be added to marijuana. marijauna is a safe substance. no one wants another deadly substance out there. something should b done to prevent tabacco companies from adding harmful substances…somethn :/
When legalized at least we will have a choice … I don’t even use a dispensary now … People and Greed!
This is B/S. He simply doesnt wanna lose his money, thats all. Fact is – if legalization does come, this 14-year “I’m gettin paid for my hobby” work will sadly come down to ruins… In a way it’s selfish to oppose legaliztion, but the capitalist owners that oppose it are obviously not 100% in the biz just to help spread the good meds. Just face it.
He does have a point though – Babylon WILL attempt to pollute our sacred herb… but thats OK because real stoners will know to only purchase 100% PURE ALL NATURAL ORGANICALLY GROWN herb =)
Wow what an article. You really do your reach. Thanks for always keeping me informed to the latest developments in this legalization fight. I wish more people would support NORML and help push this over the top.
Legalize it. Let the cards fall where they may. Prohibition is wrong no matter how you swing it.
This author should realize this is NOT the place to make an all-knowing statement about conspiracy theories. Marijuana prohibition is a conspiracy theory, and that is why are trying to prove is real. Sept 11th is not the same as one man’s “crazy” opinion. It is a full day of events in several locations that cannot be summed up by explosives not being able to be moved into a busy building. Why did you bring Sept 11 into this?
Here’s a letter I sent to Huffington Post:
It seems self-evident that anyone who is such a big fan of marijuana would want all adults to have legal access to it. And there are several important arguments for legalization that hold even if you think marijuana is bad for society. These include: damage done to those arrested, especially minorities; the violation of civil liberties of those searched and sometimes killed in the search for illegal drugs; the destruction of our public lands in the cultivation of it; and the cynicism created by the participation of tens of millions of Americans in this crime. And it is, right now, a crime everywhere in this country, which turns all those who ever used it into outlaws.
His words sound eerily like the growers in Northern California, who mostly oppose legalization. They have control of an incredibly lucrative niche market with little competition. It seems to me that people immersed in marijuana culture are generally extremely enthusiastic about marijuana, and believe passionately that it should be legal.
And I believe their argument. The science is pretty overwhelming that cannabis is an incredibly useful plant. The seeds have a protein and fatty acid profile with the most nutritious naturaly foods, the rope was indispensable to all seafaring journeys from Columbus to Magellan, the cloth is naturally rough but (like the rope) incredibly strong, it makes inexpensive paper while using much less land to grow it than trees, and also can be used to make industrial products. It also happens to be THE fastest growing plant in the world, and is renowned for its ability to grow almost anywhere, which means industrial hemp can relieve several problems at once.
People like Craig are making money off prohibition. I think it is shameful for them to denounce legalization. They are simultaneously promoting the plant and profiting off all the negative consequences of prohibition. And the evidence does not support their pandering “we’re doing it for the children!”
If they thought it through they would realize that – what? – 1 or 2% of Californian adults can currently smoke marijuana now? If it were legal that number would be 100% If it were legal the price would decline but the 80% figure it a scare tactic. The government will take $50 per ounce just in taxes- and I’d argue they should raise it to $100 per ounce. And let me point out that no matter what, there will always be a boutique market for gourmet marijuana. Prices for the good stuff will stay high no matter what. Besides, these dispensary owners- and their growers- have years of a head start on establishing their brand before the big guys get their chance.
They should support legalization and bust their humps to take advantage of it.
I dont think companies like Phil. Morr. will manipulate cannabis. Stats show that the amount of smokers wont increase due to legalization (look at Holland). And many many MANY more people smoke tobacco than cannabis. I believe the cannabis industry would be more like wine or beer industry. In which the proprietors (hopefully) will put the herb first and the profits second.
The issue will be EDUCATION. If we are at the forefront informing people about the pros of quality, organic bud, then people will follow suit and make the right decisions. When cigarettes took hold of us as a species, no one was there to steer us in the opposite direction. It has taken decades to undermine the tight grip the tobacco companies had on the entire nation. However, now we have the knowledge and the power to educate the masses. There will always be puppets who blindly support big corporations, but now more than ever the people are leaning towards local, quality product (whether it be cannabis or anything else).
If it were me running one of these dispensaries, I would be hard at work preparing for the day I could open my doors to the public.
L.A. area here, and I’ve had a Venice Dispensary tell me the same thing as you are hearing. I also heard it from a local delivery service. Both used the “William Morris” claim.
This information needs to get to more people. Dispensaries are already scaring patients.
[Russ responds: “William” Morris? Isn’t that a Hollywood talent agency? LOL]
As I feared,when marijuana is legal for medicine,the ones dispensing the “medicine” will not want cannabis ,in any form to be legalized,for the main reason;Greed.Money hungry turncoats, I todaso,I todaso,to quote Ricky. Will, when it is legal (if) in all states,for medicine,it be worse to be caught with cannabis without a prescription or as it is now?
How about regulating marijuana with a “Personal Use” tax.
Thank you for posting about this issue. It’s important that people see the truth about how Marijuana dispensary owners who don’t support legalization are for the most part just trying to cheat people so that they can earn more money. I feel like this is a large part of the issue with most people who support the war on drugs; their pocketbooks benefit from it somehow. I also particularly enjoyed the section where you pointed out studies that show teen marijuana use is now higher than tobacco use, even though nobody gets arrested for smoking tobacco, and how marijuana use among teens has decreased since Medical Marijuana was enacted. Excellent reporting once again!
statistical and verbal SMACKDOWN of that A-hole. Major major props.
Without legalization, California is doomed.
“What about the DEA?!? As long marijuana is a schedule one control substance, the DEA can and always will override and ignore any state laws. The “Control Substance Act of 1970” is unconstitutional.
[Russ responds: A very good point. What will Uncle Sam do once everyone in California can grow a 5’x5′ pot garden and carry up to an ounce?
Not much. That’s not really federal territory unless there’s a better motive for them to prosecute. 99% of all marijuana arrests happen at the state and local level – the level at which sight and smell of cannabis, so long as it isn’t in public, is none of their concern. Feds aren’t going to be busting the Californians smoking and growing a little weed.
But how will they handle, say, Oakland allowing retail cultivation and sales? I can imagine a raid or two for the feds to make a photo op to say they won’t stand for this crazy California lawbreaking. I think it would really backfire for them, politically, but I think they’d do it almost reflexively.
However, they won’t have the assistance of local law enforcement. Maybe it’s too much of a pain. California is a really big state with a whole lot of people, and especially people with money. It’s also a huge part of the American economy.
Ultimately, who knows? I remember going to a gig in 1989 and coming home at 3am to see Tom Brokaw broadcasting in front of the just-fallen Berlin Wall. Sometimes unimaginable change comes swiftly.]
Let’s just legalize it already!
Great read. Loved your last paragraph…it’s not just about taxes, profits, whatever…it’s about ending the immoral violation of the rights of the people of this country.
Please supply a list of names and I will gladly post them all over the net.These people are just as bad as the pigs who prosecute patients.
Thank goodness this crook only gets one vote on the matter. Even him and his co-horts wont be able to out vote sensible dispensary USERS
Even among non-volume growers the “I have mine and like the way things are … Prop 19 will cause more problems and they’ll take away my ability to grow with new ordinances” has been quite shocking to hear on a regular basis.
I agree the proposal is not perfect and imposes certain penalties that are going to be abused by the prohibitionists. However, like any rational person, the idea that this sends out a clear message for the entire civilized world is far more important. This is the start of something wonderful if people would just stop fearing the change.
The world wont end. With a flood of new growers how will people protected under not only the new blanket of legalization, but staight up allowances for the old MMJ and sb420 regs become targeted? They’ll disappear amidst the backwash from large scale commercial enterprises and tens or hundreds of thousands of new home grows. It truly will become the lowest enforcement priority. There simply wont be a tolerance of continued violence in the face of the public’s voice.
I understand the fear of having it backlash and collapse. But this is the same fear that the prohibitionists have. Its just fear. Not based in anything real. Your Philip Morris and zero profit mentalities are just as insane as the everyone will be driving stoned and children will be suffering in droves arguments.
The dispensary owners who oppose must not have a good sense of business. They are the most connected etc to open all the alternatives to the Philip Morris style products that *may* become available. Even the Triangle is decrying a total collapse of their market. I just dont see it happening. Perhaps they have all blown their money on cars and toys and dont have the capital to invest into the future. The smart ones will have the capital to expand and move into the new markets. The others suffer like all the other people in this world who dont plan for the future.
Any smart dispensary owner will keep in mind they can champion around support from those of us who appreciate their opening doors here. Crying over lost 7 and 8 figure incomes however is just asking a bit much from us.
Like so many here at NORML and elsewhere in the sane world see it: Arresting and capitalizing on a vast illegal market of something that is far safer than all the alternatives is just lunacy. End this madness and vote yes for heaven’s sake.
I just looked this up on wikipedia. It states the US has proof of the benefits of medical marijuana. If it is not enough that marijuana has been used for 10000 years for some medical benefit. There is a medical benefit if I say I feel better after using it. Is there any way you can tell me pot doesnt help my stress level or help me think a little clearer.
“The Health and Human Services Division of the federal government holds a patent for medical marijuana. The patent, “Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants”, issued October 2003[147] reads: “Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases. The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease and HIV dementia…”[183]”
I pulled the above paragraph off of wikipedia. Marijuana has a medical benefit and the US government cannot say otherwise. If a doctor is willing to write a prescription for weed to help my back pain or my headaches or help me sleep who can tell me that the medicine is not working if I go back and refill my prescription. This is my body I should be allowed to choose which medicine I put in it. If I have a choice between Oxycotin or marijuana why cant I choose which to take.
This was a much needed article for the gullible out there. Thanks for posting NORML
The thing that noone seems to be telling ANYONE is to READ THE BILL FOR YOURSELVES!
Everyone’s got a comment, everyone’s got an opinion, everyone’s got a point to make, but so far, I’ve never seen anyone either for or against the bill pubicly state “I believe and I bade my thoughts on “.
There has also never been a full point-for-point description of the ambiguities of the proposal, or how they will affect the existing standing of 215.
There needs to be a COMPREHENSIVE DISTILLATION of what the bill means, where things can be misinterpreted, where they can be abused by the police and the courts, and after all is said and done, there needs to be a truly informed voting public to base their decisions on FACTS.
Unless you’re a congressman, in which case, we know you don’t read anything before voting on it.
At this point, I’m neither for or against the proposal, but I do know for a fact that the only long-term solution to the problem is the wholesale REPEAL of cannabis/hemp prohibition for all. Farmers need to be able to grow it, industry needs to have free access to it, medical users deserve to have it, and even the lowly recreational user should be able to make an informed decision on what they think is better: a safe, non-toxic, natural plant that they can grow at home, or the risks associated with alcohol.
The thing that noone seems to be telling ANYONE is to READ THE BILL FOR YOURSELVES!
Everyone’s got a comment, everyone’s got an opinion, everyone’s got a point to make, but so far, I’ve never seen anyone either for or against the bill pubicly state “I believe … and I base my thoughts on Section xx; quotation.“.
There has also never been a full point-for-point description of the ambiguities of the proposal, or how they will affect the existing standing of 215.
There needs to be a COMPREHENSIVE DISTILLATION of what the bill means, where things can be misinterpreted, where they can be abused by the police and the courts, and after all is said and done, there needs to be a truly informed voting public to base their decisions on FACTS.
Unless you’re a congressman, in which case, we know you don’t read anything before voting on it.
At this point, I’m neither for or against the proposal, but I do know for a fact that the only long-term solution to the problem is the wholesale REPEAL of cannabis/hemp prohibition for all. Farmers need to be able to grow it, industry needs to have free access to it, medical users deserve to have it, and even the lowly recreational user should be able to make an informed decision on what they think is better: a safe, non-toxic, natural plant that they can grow at home, or the risks associated with alcohol.
[Paul Armentano responds: NORML has posted several summaries of Prop. 19. Every post links to the initiative text so anyone can read it. An FAQ regarding the initiative is here: http://www.taxcannabis.org/page/content/faq. As has been previously said many times already, Prop. 19 does not alter or amend protections in place by Prop. 215 or SB 420.
http://www.taxcannabis.org/page/content/faq
Q: Does Proposition 19 change medical cannabis laws in California?
A: No, it won’t change or affect current medical cannabis laws or protections offered to qualified patients. Patients will still be able to possess what is needed for medical use, and will retain all rights under Prop 215 and SB 420.]
When weed becomes legal and prices drop I’l be smoking hash.
Something I find people also tend to overlook is how the legalization of marijuana and its taxation will help the economy. That can only benefit everyone, including dispensary merchants. It’s a beneficial move to everyone, and the main resistances to it are greed and years of propaganda claiming that marijuana has a host of ill effects stemming from its use, when anyone with a smidgen of common sense could see that it has an incredible array of benefits for people.
I also have yet to hear a valid reason why alcohol, which results in hundreds of deaths from diseases caused by repeated use, drunk driving accidents and general public idiocy, while marijuana is vilified and treated like some sort of highly negative “drug”. No one dies from marijuana poisoning. And the only thing that a stoned person is dangerous to is a bag of Doritos.
The nation has floods of movies about “stoner” culture, people make jokes about it, an enormous amount of people smoke it with or without legalization. We’re ready for legal status.
YES, THE DISPENSARY OWNERS DONT WANT IT LEGALIZED BECAUSE THEY FEAR THE BIG TOBACCO AND THE DISASTER OF THE QUALITY ..
THEY ARE RIGHT BUT THEY SHOULD KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS IS A NORMAL RESULT AND A RIGHT THAT CANNOT BE TAKEN AWAY FROM THE BIG COMPANIES..
IT WILL BE LEGALIZED FOR THEM TOO..
JUST LIKE ALCOOL IT WILL BE..
THERE ARE THE BIG BOOZE COMPANIES.. THE WISKEYS, VODKAS, ETC THERE ARE THE BEER COMPANIES AND THE COMERCIAL WINES… BUT FOR THE COINESSEUR.. FOR THE LOVER OF THE SPECIAL THING THERE WILL BE ALWAYS THE DELICATESSEN TYPE SHOP FOR THE SPECIAL PRODUCTS..
NOW WE (YOU, BECAUSE WE IN ELLAS ATHENS STILL LIVE IN INCREDIBLE REEFER MADNESS AND WE NEED HELP…) ARE IN A TRANSITION SITUATION WHERE THINGS DID NOT TAKE THEIR FINAL PLACE YET AND THAT IS WHY THEY MAKE ALL THESE HUGE PROFITS..
OF COURSE THINGS WILL CHANGE AND THEIR DISPENASARY BUSINESSES WILL MAYBE NOT BE GOLD MINES BUT WILL MAKE A GOOD LIVING AND PROVIDE TO ALL US LOVERS OF GOOD HERB THE BLESSED PLANT.. DONT OPPOSE IT BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF THE DISPENSARIES… ITS THE FUTURE AND CANNOT BE STOPED.. JUST BE HAPPY THAT FREEDOM IS AT SIGHT
[Editor’s note: Please…no all CAPS.]
I **LOVE** this article. I am so glad you guys finally bit back– that sarcastic part where you point out the “what about the children” argument… please do MORE stuff like that.
Mocking other people’s flimsy arguments with confidence and humor is exactly how you show people how stupid those arguments are. Giving people the facts only works once they realize the guy arguing for the status quo is full of crap.
In other words, this was awesome.
[Russ responds: I’m glad you enjoyed it. Snark is my stock-in-trade and you can catch lots of it over at The NORML Stash Blog at http://stash.norml.org and on our live weekday streaming podcast, NORML SHOW LIVE at http://live.norml.org.
However, the serious and scholarly posts offered by Allen St. Pierre, Paul Armentano, Keith Stroup, and Sabrina Fendrick here on the NORML front page are enormously important in that rarefied air inhabited by policy wonks, medicos, scientists, and political types. The front page is “The New York Times” and the Stash Blog is “The New York Post” of NORML.
I think it is cool that we have both. Hope to see you over at the Stash sometime.]
Why in the world would any free thinking person want mariuana taxed at all ? Legalize it means legalize it..period.
We see where our tax dollars are going today,, right to Afghanistan,, and for what ?? Legalize it. Done deal.
And when it is legal,, we will see a huge reduction in the number of deaths caused by prescription drug overdoses,, and a huge reduction in the incredible amount of dollars spent on synthetic anti depressants.
I dare anyone to eat a gram of hash and still be depressed !
Keep it up Caleefornia !!
[Paul Armentano responds: Legal retail commodities are taxed in this country — like it or not. If you buy tomatoes at the grocery store, you pay a sales tax. If you grow tomatoes at home you don’t pay a tax. If you grow tomatoes commercially and sell them, you need to possess proper licensing and face regulations. Prop. 19 treats cannabis precisely the same way.]
[Russ adds: I live in Oregon. I don’t pay sales taxes on my tomatoes. But I do have to give ’em a nickle for every soda can, so I guess it all works out… 😉
I had one of the “Don’t Tread On Me” anti-pot-tax people get on my case while I was on a Prop 19 panel in San Francisco. He wanted anyone anywhere to be able to grow any amount with absolutely no interference, registration, taxation, or licensing.
I answered, “Great! Show me any other agricultural commodity that enjoys that kind of treatment, so we can copy it for cannabis!”
*crickets*]
Lets start by bebunking one myth; There are clear guidlines in this law that limit how much land can be used to grow on…
anybody who tells who that “marlboro is gonna plant 4,000 acres”, is either a BOLD FACED LIAR, or stupid/ignorant enough not to have read the law completely before making an ignorant statement.
Another point I would like to adress is to the “no tax on pot” people… my question is this; would you rather pay taxes to put people in jail, or would you rather pay a tax on pot?
paying a tax on pot would save thousands upon thousands of people from being put in jail at the tax payers expence…It’s called compromise in the name of world peace, tolerance, and the greater good of the country. And we will also need compromise from people who are intolerant of pot, and thats where the taxing comes in.
sappose you live in a state that is not smart like calf. and can not afford to move out there? then what do you do? it’s bad enough having to freeze 9 mounths out of the year but it’s all so 1 off the highest taxed,low minuim wage paying states in the country. the off 3 mounth you have masquto’s and road constrtion. it sucks hearing about these other place where a disabled person can go and poteasily. flippng mn. don’t vote for plenty if he run for president that will be a step backwards.
Yea californians¡¡¡ and states wide, smoke more weed.
Drive less cars use more bicicle you will be lot healthier,and get that urban growing,youll be self suficient
The theme of this article is correct, long overdue in fact. Thanks NORML folks; true herb folks indeed. We know for certain the majority of cannabis vendors in California as motivated by greed, at least partially, if not fully. We attest to this fact. It makes us sick, but its true. Many of the folks who’ve “Shown Up” at advocacy meetings, and gov’t sham task forces, up until now, are of this type, crass commercial interests making bank.
Lets wage some effing peace, why don’t we? Lets rock this boat. Don’t go quitely into the night, without a true fight.
http://theholyherb.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19:joomla-overview&catid=36:cannabis-heals-category&Itemid=53
rastaFARi
Another fine article, Russ. Thank you and keep ’em coming!
YES TO INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY AND FREEDOM!!
YES ON PROP 19!
I agree with the Dispensaries logic about Phillip Morris ‘ruining weed’ but the key counter is that you can A) grow your own, and B) so far this bill does not favor big corporatism regulations like many other aspects of our micromanaged Federal approved economy.
As long as we have both A and B, legalization will work out very well. Lose A or B or both, and the dispensaries concerns are legitimate.
Good article, thank you.
There’s not enough pot smokers to pass this damn law of legalization!
[Paul Armentano responds: And that is why the Prop. 19 campaign is a coalition that is appealing to a wide range of demographics, like the NAACP, organized labor, health professionals, law enforcement, etc. Here’s just one example: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0715-union-support-20100715,0,7156078.story. Self-defeating posts are hardly helpful to this cause.]
Brilliant article, and I LOVE your comment to post #16! I’m a Californian, who was born in San Francisco, lived here most of my life, and have been smoking pot DAILY since 1967. My old man and I both have medical pot scrips, and grow our own “medicine.”
We are TOTALLY for Prop 19, because of the following:
1. It will have NO effect on the medical pot user, and in fact, leaves Prop 215 ALONE;
2. This proposed legislation is for the COMMERCIAL GROWER — NOT you and I growing plants in our backyard, for our own personal consumption;
3. The state needs revenue — everything’s being cut, from education, to social services, to libraries, to firefighters, etc.
Right now, marijuana is California’s BIGGEST cash crop, but the profits are only going to a select few, like the Mexican drug lords, and what I call “Pot Barons.”
I’ve been bombarding my elected officials in support of Prop 19, using the argument that it just makes sense (and, “cents”) for our state.
I also mention that even IF it doesn’t pass this November, the handwriting is on the wall for full legalization, so get with the program, people, because it’s eventually going to happen! Why not benefit from taxing and regulating the commercial production of it?
Or do you want to leave things unchanged, and sit complacently by, as the cartels continue to reap billion-dollar profits, using growing methods that pollute our environment, while, because of our financial straits, we have less-and-less law enforcement to arrest-and-prosecute these rich thugs?
And, yes, the Feds have had a patent on medical pot since 2003, but SO WHAT? Their patent has absolutely NO EFFECT on Prop 19! And, similarly, all the tobacco companies probably have an entire marijuana marketing model in place, ready to sell to the public, but again, I say, SO WHAT? This is a capitalist society, so it’s not surprising that people all over the globe, in all sorts of industries, are prepared, or at least preparing, for “the ‘marijuana’ industry.”
I’ve been advocating pot legalization since the late ’60s, and I’m SO energized by the possibility of seeing my efforts (along with thousands of others) finally realized!
We were the 1st state to enact medical pot laws, so let’s lead the nation again, and LEGALIZE marijuana this November!
Stay High and Peace!
On the surface it is really apparent that this industry wants special treatment. I think they fail to observe what they preach. Its a matter of civil rights, not a matter of medical rights…get your message right before the government shits on you again.
…I KNOW things too, I KNOW there is no causation link between schizophrenia and cannabis, I KNOW the gateway theory is incorrect, I KNOW there is no short term memory loss, I KNOW responsible adults should end marijuana prohibition and keep it away from kids and drug dealers… so if you ask me, I will tell you, KNOW the facts…educate…just say KNOW !!
at this time, legalizing cannabis is the most important – progressive – issue in the country. call the movement the first of many sledge hammer slams to the international wall.
IF the fascist dea chooses to trump state law, local cops will follow happily woofing and panting. in other words, these gangsters can MAINTAIN THE FEAR. right now the dea is on the attack.
~ ~ ~
growing excellent herb is a lot like making fine wine. there’s real skill involved.
solidly good herb, with a few sensible loving practices, can be grown abundantly in any backyard.
there doesn’t seem to be any supply/demand reasons for an oz of good buds to cost more than a pound of fruit.
the present cali sitch is a lot like a feverish gold strike for all the usual systemic biz/greed turf reasons.
Hear Hear!!!
great argument in favor of legalizing
thank you.
Well the dispensary are getting greedy and they want it all for them self. But wouldn’t you want more costumers going in your store than just with doctors permission. I know i would. Legalize it an let it be….quit the greediness.!!!!!
Phillip Morris just purchased 400 acres? Where? That’s a pretty big purchase from a publicly traded company, you’d think there would exist some statement about it outside of for-profit dispensary owners on the other side of the state.
Here was my response to the Huffington Post:
“It sounds like some serious greed as this guy is about to be the only one of two collectives in Venice as quoted: “Last month,” Craig explained proudly, “there were 24 operating marijuana collectives in Venice. A month from now, there will only be two. And we’ll be one of them.” So he gets to make more money as now he will be absorbing the patients from the collectives that were forced to shut down.
Oh, and then this part in the article: He gestured around his beloved shop, with every flavor of every strain, in its purist form, selling for at-cost prices. “I like the way things are now.” AT COST PRICES?!?!?! The pricing is not much different then the current black market prices. Even those have started to decline. So I don’t know how he has figured his pricing is AT-COST….unless he is not growing his own meds like he should be, and instead paying some “vendors” $3,500-$5,000 per pound.
I smell something in the air…and it ain’t herb.”
I’ll see you all at 1:00pm PST on the NORML Show Live!
http://stickam.com/normlshowlive
Peace and Respect!
Doc Herbalist
Great! Now we have a NORML article talking about “THC crystals”??? Russ you’ve written plenty of articles pointing out the inaccuracy of statements calling THC “the active ingredient in marijuana”, and as careful as NORML contributing writers are to be accurate and specific when discussing cannabis, I’d be less disappointed if I could continue to suggest links to NORML articles to folks without concerns that there may be support for inaccurate facts.
[Russ responds: What’s the problem? OK, it’s a bit simplistic, as kief is the trichomes of the leaves and bud and contain much more than just THC, but for a mainstream media article, not wishing to go much further beyond my 1,500-word limit, I simplified it for the reader. The kernel of truth is there: buds that have been “kiefed” will be less effective and the kief itself is full of cannabis goodness.]
This is all about greaseball marketing. Somebodys not going to make as much as Philip Morris. Cry about it. Without legalization in California, there won’t be legalization anywhere. I fucking hate this country. Its full of stupid people from sea to oily sea. We can’t even have medical marijuana in the deep south. We still have to worry about laws.
I never have thought of that before. What if they add nicotine in marijuana? Or worse? That would be terrible!
NORML,
Thank you for the great article. Craig’s attempts at scare tactics just goes to show you that greed can even extend to the MJ market (as if we didn’t already know that!).
I’ll go back to my Amsterdam analogy. Out there, they allow the sale of MJ, taxed and regulated and growing MJ in modest quantities. The result: great prices and some of the best d***mned MJ you ever smoked! Also some of the best H*sh!
I run into people now and then who complain about the tax and regulation aspect. I ask them if they like paying high prices? Black Market prices? Cuz, that’s what you’re gonna keep getting if you don’t legalize, tax and regulate it. Where I live, in the Southwest USA, you have to pay up the A** for good stuff–I realize the dealers are taking a chance, so I cut them the slack. But I will be so happy if California–Golden California–paves the way. I think people will be surprised at how the prices drop, and how the quality improves, if anything.
I don’t want to be negative, but I’ve seen the downsides to this bill through another website and there are valid concerns. Firstly, how can you use a 5×5 plot and grow 1 ounce at a time year-round? Do you harvest a big-ass plant every October and freeze it wet, then dry out an ounce of useable material at a time? I thought you had to have a reduced amount of daylight to make buds, so one couldn’t just plant and plant year-round. Secondly, the wording is ambiguous regarding cultivation rights. Thirdly, while I don’t believe in giving kids dope, I believe even less in mandatory minimum sentences. Fourthly, the math doesn’t work. If the state adds $50, then the county adds $50, then the city tacks on… well why would I spend that kind of money? Naturally people could just grow their own, but I’d expect the taxes for homegrown be immediately increased to extract those exact same fees as at the store. Fifthly, If people get caught with a grow at home, will they call it “tax evasion” and confiscate your home? Lastly, the feds will spoil the party. Obama has at best a 50-50 chance at re-election IMO, and when the republicans take power, they will either send their military/law enforcement friends in for some OT, or they will position their big-money corporate friends to shape, dominate and forever profit in the new industry.
[Russ responds: Well, now that you put it that way, I guess we should continue to waste tax dollars and lives arresting people for personal marijuana use. Since you’re so concerned about the shortcomings of Prop 19, I’m sure you’ll volunteer to be first in line to fill a jail cell for one of us that would prefer any legalization to none.
*Sigh* Let me tackle your fears:
1) Grow your 5×5 plot. Harvest your weed. Without the probable cause of seeing or smelling those plants and that harvested herb, how does “The Man” know you have stored more than one ounce? Don’t leave your house with more than an ounce.
2) The cultivation wording is not ambiguous. Are you 21? Then you can cultivate a 5’x5′ garden. Pretty cut and dried, if you ask me.
3) I guess you’re referring to the penalties for 21+ distributing cannabis to those 18-21. Because Prop 19 changes nothing about the penalties for 21+ distributing cannabis to those younger than 18 – those will be the same penalties as they are now. The new penalties mirror the penalties in place for 21+ giving alcohol to 18-21s.
Again, I’d say if you’re 21+ and in a situation where a police officer may see you handing a joint to someone 18-21… don’t do it.
4) You’re misinformed. Prop 19 requires no set $50 state tax; that was Assem. Ammiano’s legalization proposal at the Assembly. Prop 19 creates no state taxation and doesn’t even mandate city or county taxation. Localities may regulate commercial production and sales and then they may tax it… but you can still grow your untaxed 5’x5′ if you don’t like the tax.
5) No. Growing 5’x5′ at home is a personal right, not a commercially taxed product.
6) The feds can spoil the Prop 215 party anytime they like, too… shall we repeal that? What are you arguing for, that nobody legalize until the Feds do? I won’t live to see that.
And again with the “big corporate friends”. So what? Let Philip Morris try to grow quality buds. If they make ’em clean and trimmed and no toxins and potent and cheap, great! If not, we’ll grow our own or buy from boutique growers. Why this huge fear of “Big Cannabis”? Is this just a reflexive abhorrence of capitalism in general?]
BOYCOTT any business that opposes Prop 19.
Let the parasites pay for their greed…
You won’t get crickets from me.
I’m not a teabagger or an anti-tax nut but how do you justify a $50 per ounce tax like was proposed in the bill in the Cal legislature?
Why does the same govt that ruined so many peoples lives with their prohibition laws deserve that kind of excessive tax?Why not let the farmers and distributors make the profit and see what price the market will bear and let the govt get the same rate of taxes as any other agricultural crop?
[Russ responds: Once again, the $50/ounce state tax is the Ammiano bill, not Prop 19. Please, go read it before chiming in with the tax fears.
Taxation, if any, will only occur in the localities that decide to allow commercial production and sales.
Plus, keep in mind “the government” that ruined people’s lives is us. We vote for the politicians who maintain these laws. These laws could not remain without the tacit approval of a majority of Americans. This ‘government is the enemy’ thinking is part of what has kept us oppressed for so long.]
well, no bud should be over 300 a Z…please….1k for 1/4 LB
Hello Russ,
I just had to tell you that husband Marc Emery LOVES this article (as do I)! I sent a copy to him in prison — he’s in SeaTac FDC right now awaiting sentencing for his seed-selling “crime” — and he wrote back that it’s absolutely FANTASTIC and must be shared everywhere!
So I posted it on our Facebook accounts (over 40,000 people combined) and we’re going to post it on CannabisCulture.com too. Marc wanted me to say “Thank you” from him for writing this excellent article.
Regards,
Jodie Emery
P.S. Marc wrote an article of his own, deconstructing the propaganda put forth by Prop 19 opponents; it’s linked to on the left-hand side of our website. 🙂
[Paul Armentano responds: Jodie, thanks so much for posting, and for speaking out on behalf of Prop. 19. (Terrific job on T4Hemp btw.) I’m glad that you and Marc appreciate Russ’ article and that you have reposted it in other forums. I think I speak for everyone here at NORML, and the cannabis community in general, when I say that our thoughts and hopes are with Marc (and you) during this difficult time.]
The 18-20 year old LEGAL ADULTS. Shouldn’t vote for this one pure principle. Their rights are continued to be denied, they will continue to be harassed, assaulted, jailed and otherwise treated as second class citizens. What is possibly good about this? Yeah, 21+ can smoke but the massive majority of those who smoke are under 21, and even more are under 18. Don’t kid yourselves that under-21s will be prevented from getting it as they do now and will forever to continue to do. I started smoking at 19 and I’d STILL be a criminal scum if this was legalized at the age it is my state. Don’t you see the irony? The blaring hypocrisy? All 18-20 year olds should not vote for this because if they do, they’ll enforce their lack of rights – they will be saying “raise the age of majority to 21, because 18-20 year olds are still children!”
[Russ responds: So, because 18-20-year-olds, who have no right to toke now, who will continue to have no right after Prop 19, they should vote for adults 18-100+ to continue to be arrested and jailed for toking. “If I can’t have mine, nobody can! If I have to go to jail, so should everybody else!”
Real mature.
BTW, your assertion that “the massive majority of those who smoke are under 21” is not true.
From the 2008 National Survey on Drug Use & Health: “In 2008, adults aged 26 or older were less likely to be current drug users than youths aged 12 to 17 or young adults aged 18 to 25 (5.9 vs. 9.3 and 19.6 percent, respectively). However, there were more drug users aged 26 or older (11.3 million) than users in the 12-to-17-year age group (2.3 million) and 18-to-25-year age group (6.5 million) combined.”
Now, I do get your point, and in a perfect world, I’d make 18 the age for everything. I feel if you’re mature enough to carry a rifle for Uncle Sam, you should be able to enjoy a beer and a joint. And if tobacco is legal at 18 (19 some states), so should cannabis be. Unfortunately, you and I don’t live in a perfect world and politically, setting cannabis age below alcohol age will not fly.
Also, it turns out that 18-20-year-olds eventually turn 21. Why shouldn’t they vote for something that will make their cannabis use legal in three years or less?]
Hey dipshit, I mean craig from venice beach..I myself would not buy phillip morris marijuana if it’s tainted as tobacco is, I like my natural marijuana, and I’m sure just about everyone else in the united states does..
and two, I’m 21 years old, so get screwed if you think it’s going to be easier for children to obtain cannabis if it’s tightly regulated and ID’s are checked…it’s much easier for kids to get cannabis than tobacco or alcohol..
This was always my thought that would happen if we were to use the idea of legalizing cannabis through medicinal purposes and then trying to make it for personal use. It’s like trying to make it so that anyone can get percocet. Calling something a medicine and then saying that it was meant for everybody is where big med companies are trying to make their profits, can’t you see it in the commercials on television? It’s always “try our product” … “if your doctor says it’s cool” but since now just about anybody can be a doctor we have so many that aren’t in it for the patients and are in it for the money. We need to pull ourselves out of this Medical issue, work on legalizing hemp first and then say it has more properties. It’s commercial is far greater than it’s medicinal value, and could produce way more income for farmers that way. Basically, if we can get the government to basically look at weed like it does psychedelic mushrooms, it’s cool to grow, but you can’t use it .. baby steps.
Most of this was written out of anger. I’ve been involved in many arguments against marijuana smokers with many different people that are willing to have a “conversation” about the subject. Many of them attack how pot smokers are just trying to legalize medicinal marijuana so that they can go to a crappy doctor and get some card to walk into a store and buy their drugs. This how politicians are going to look at it when comes to seeing what the public wants.
I may be young but I’ve doing my research, and while still looking at things with a bit of a naive tone, I still believe that we should all reread Jack Herer’s “Emperor Wears No Clothes” and really see why we’re going through all this bickering.
Lindsay, even though cannabis is illegal now, young people still get access to it and use it regularly. So even though Proposition 19 doesn’t make it legal for them, why wouldn’t they continue to get access to and use cannabis just as they do now?
Additionally, why would a 20-year-old vote NO when they know that next year they’ll be able to legally buy it? Every young person of voting age knows that they’ll soon be 21, so why would they vote to continue putting people their age — and even themselves — at risk of arrest and imprisonment?
Hey Lindsay, as far as the 18-20 year olds are concerned…I think you need to look at the bigger picture instead of the “What’s in it for me?” attitude.
Personally, I’m a legal medical marijuana patient, so I should care either because it doesn’t change anything as far as how I obtain my meds. But I don’t look at it from a “What’s in it for me?” standpoint. I look at the fact that if this passes then I won’t have to worry about any of my family and friends going to jail over simple posession. I look at it as, if this passes, then no 18-20 year old will have to have to see their parents arrested and hauled off to jail for simple posession.
Finally, it has nothing to do with saying “raise the age of majority to 21, because 18-20 year olds are still children. The brain is still in development during that age range and for that reason they (gov’t) would like to keep it that way to play it safe. Perhaps one day, that same government will actually authorize…maybe even fund studies on 18-20 year olds and if it turns out that there are no adverse effects that age might be dropped.
So…I hear what you’re saying…but please consider the bigger picture.
In regards to the under 21 issue … I am 19 and I don’t mind having to wait til 21 to purchase it legally. I still drink occasionally as like many in my age group. To say that 18-20 shouldn’t vote is ridiculous. We’re here to promote responsible marijuana use. Do I still believe that should be allowed to drink at 18, since after all you can smoke cigarettes at 18, absolutely. Have I come to realize that this country is comprised of many of man’s flaws, absolutely. Will I continue to smoke marijuana, even if you have to be 21 to legally consume it, absolutely. Will I give up my vote so that I can stand by naive thinking in that everything should be legal at 18, absolutely not. We have to vote like responsible adults to make up for the fact that many out there are not.
[Russ responds: Thanks, Harrison. I’ve always said that 18-20 year olds have the right to vote and if they showed up in numbers like senior citizens do, they could secure the right to drink and smoke weed. If you don’t vote, you’re saying “I don’t care, all you people just tell me what to do.”]
50 LongTime Puffer
Well – my guess was right. You are from the South West. I am from the Emerald State [California] or what used to be the Golden State. Northern California looks like a over-grown Chia Pet. If you’re from California as well – you know exactly what’s going on. Experience is the best teacher, and we are experiencing the whole tamale. I only have one thing to say to everyone. NOTHING HAPPENS UNLESS YOU MAKE IT HAPPEN. MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!
A lot of these discussions have only been concerned with what ‘marijuana’ will do to the community and economy of the country. The United States’ Controlled Substance Act does not see a difference between marijuana and HEMP! I will, clearly, not be the first to say the benefits that would arise with the legalization of marijuana, but what about hemp? Hemp is not grown in the United States. We get most of our hemp from other countries like Canada, UK, Germany, and China. Because America is the only country {in the WORLD mind you} that does not recognize the value of industrial hemp, we are all ultimately going to pay the price. Whether it be economically or environmentally.
I’m somewhat sickened at all the value you have added to the importance of marijuana being legal, and ignoring the real face of the issue -hemp. If we passionately want to help this country, let us take our minds off of ourselves for a minute…
Again, I speak of “industrializing” hemp. Marijuana, should be by law, limited to rates of production to the LOCAL citizens. Because localism , by contrast, offers a physically plausible economy for the future, and a psychologically one as well: an economy that might better provide goods like time and security that we’re short of. (Deep Econony)
Hemp can supply other commodities were short of as well. Oil, paper, housing, textiles, food, and inspiration. All respectfully signs that God himself wants us to grow this plant! (So maybe these giant cigarette companies you speak of can be allowed to grow hemp, keeping its THC content down to a minimal 3 percent like the other intelligible countries do.)
Marijuana is wonderful and benefits and so many ways and is a gift from Shiva. We must accept the gift as it is, and marijuana as it is; is hemp.
America needs to legalize hemp. Then we can have our marijuana. The Controlled Substance Act & Drug Enforcement Agency currently do not see the difference! In a sense, there’s only one actual difference: Marijuana = Local/ Hemp = Industrial. And there you have it, the government and it’s people will both WORK under the legalization of this sacrament plant.
I will see you in the near future, at our national’s capital Washington D.C. to address such a manner…
Thanks & Hare Krsna
Wow, this is just another example of the attitude that is KILLING our country; Fight for your “principles” for only as long as they personally benefit you. Abandon them immediately if they become unprofitable.
That’s extremely noble…using the SAME RHETORIC that we’ve been criticizing and railing against for so long in this fight. The same fight which has ultimately bought you the freedoms necessary to make your living. SHAMEFUL!
@comment #56
Are you a social retard or just a plain retard. The wording is to make it like alcohol. Why not quit complaining and help get the law passed. This way when you finally grow up and become an adult you can use this substance. Your post is inane and shows that you are young and not very misinformed. Life is a long journey and it is funny that children think they have it figured out.
The 18-20 year old block should definitely rally behind this initiative and help to pass it so that in a few years they can legally have a beer or joint if they decide to. Rants such as yours will only help to mobilize the opposing forces that seek to keep cannabis illegal.
Since it is all pie in the sky right now,why wouldn’t a big company read these forums and realize that the best marketing method will be to raise and sell primo weed that has been organically grown? They have marketing agencies that will advise them. They will want to have as many customers as they can get and they realize that overpricing,shortcuts and bunk weed will only increase the number of “green market” growers and personal grows,
which decreases their profits.
Lindsay.you are wrong because the 18 to 20 year olds will get to 21 someday. Quit crying in your post toasties and grow up,not in your body but in your mind.
Hmmmmm , that’s slightly opposite of what local polls say regarding Proposition 19 . Local polling puts it at 48 % against and 46 % for .
Ps – It better be legal come November ’cause Pot prices here in So. Cali are expensive . Decent smoke is going for about $15 a joint . Up North , of course it is cheaper sometimes even free depending on who you know .
Paul , Russ and everyone affliated with NORML are doing a great job . Your obviously educated and brilliant .
marc emery is a legendary cannabis leader. thank you sir.
recently he was taken from canada by our feds and placed in a u.s. federal jail, like something out of a soviet union gulag story.
how do these sh!theads continue to get away with this?
Greed -greed-and more greed.Everyone is so worried about a little weed.
I’m 43 yrs old Been smokin’ for 39 of them years.
I have dreamt of legalization all of my life.And I try to inform any and all people i talk to . I hear this argueement all the time.
Go California -LEGALIZE- and the same goes for the rest of the states .If more states go for and enact legalization / decriminalization laws then the Federal government will have to change those laws also. This is just something to think about.
CLOWN=capitalist bozo. thats what we have here. Also very greedy capitalist with lots of smoke to blow up non informed asses.
not surprising dispensaries oppose legalization…they’re just like the gov’t…if we can’t make money then F everyone else.
I said it on Huff Post, and I’ll say it here:
Seems to me that the only person “Craig” is looking out for is himself. As sole caregiver for my dying mother, I was thrilled that I could purchase cannabis edibles for her at a local dispensary. The change cannabis made in the quality of her life during those last months was nothing short of miraculous.
That said, since marijuana is still generally criminalized, it took a lot of lobbying on my part for her to even try it (in spite of the quasi-legality of medicinal marijuana.) She would have been much more open to it, and much sooner, if it was legal for adults all around.
In my mind, by regulating and taxing marijuana, we bring medical marijuana users out of a “grey area,” and into the mainstream. Secondly, by legalizing cannabis for all adults over 21, the nasty eye of the DEA will be shifted from legitimate collectives who are providing medical marijuana for their members, with the focus put on actual drug cartel operations (or anyone, quite frankly, who is just trying to make big bucks by circumventing the regulation process.)
I am all for the passage of Prop 19, and I challenge “Craig” and other dispensary owners to take their attention off of their own pockets, and recognize that they would be serving their customers needs much more effectively by supporting it as well.
Re Cheebs1 Post 65
The bizarre post #56 notwithstanding, I get the feeling that most 18-20 year olds will support this bill. I just hope they get out in big numbers to vote!
Rebel, hey there pal. Yer right, I’m from the SW. But I used to live in Calif for 9 years in the 1980s. BTW, did you see the demographics chart that came with the article? I knew the Gen.X’ers were a small bump in the road. Oh well, hopefully some of them have converted since.
See ya, Puffer
Just trying to get the word out
http://www.gettheform.org
a one stop for getting medicinal use forms. NO BS! Thanks.
Let the market dictate the future. I personally would rather buy organic cannabis from a grower who knows what he is doing compared to a big tobacco company. I believe that the small time grower will have to increase his crop because his product will be that much better. The public should be able to decide if they want a northern CA product or a southern CA product. There are enough cannabis users around that many full time growers, if not all, will profit considerably. Big tobacco is 30 years behind. I would support the locals before a big corporation any day. Growers and dispensaries have nothing to fear. Support your local cannabis grower!
That the way it goes…good ‘ol greed. Free the weed!
Lobby for strict labeling laws with all information from start to finish being available to the consumer. The current problems with legal industries is that they are able to sell products that do not have to submit to these standards.
Point in take. I am associated with a medi garden. The registered grower is incompetant and refuses to submit to proper conduct. He now wants me to prescribe a spray for flowering plants near harvest that are infested with spidermites. I notified him that I will have no part in this. He needs to accecpt his losses and quit coveting the dollar. He thinks his $300,000 house is a testiment to his intelligence. Nonsense. It is a testiment to his lack of intelligence as it makes him scratch for $ harder then necessary. If he would simply submit to proper conduct, the long run situation would be much better as I will demolish any prospects he has in the future industry because he only does what is most profitible and does not care about the well being of others beyound his short term interests. It will not be possible to function in such a manner as the future is realized. Incompetance is a weakness and so is not acknowledging your limits. One must submit to what their potenttial is and not try to pay oneself more then one actually deserves.
I conduct my self according to a very long term plan which holds the interests of as many people as possible. I have a meager lifestyle and many setbacks because I will accecpt nothing less then proper conduct. It is a necessary condition at this moment according to my past actions and others.
Those are just rationalizations or “good reasons.”
People who sell harvested Cannabis and then sell it for monetary benefit enjoy Cannabis prohibition as much as the industries that build prisons and fill them; the industries that would rather make toilet paper from old wood forests than a rapidly growing plant.
I will always remember the short-hand definition of “politics” I learned in political science. “Politics” = who gets what; when they get it; how they get it are details. IMO the problem with our system is not that it is two parties always fighting, it is the distraction itself that is produced by the fighting: “My party is better than yours.”
Guess what? The *real* issue is that both left and right are controlled by corporate interests, special interests, money interests through lobbying or getting strategic confederates elected.
Private demands control public policy in a way that causes social injustice. Cannabis prohibition is an unjust law. Cannabis is medicine and a source of complete nutrition. It was carried and cultivated by our ancestors to every corner of the globe, including by George Washington.
If they had called it the Hemp Tax Law instead of Marijuana Tax Law, it never would have passed. People then knew how important hemp was and that Jefferson and Franklin grew it. Cannabis prohibition started with deception and requires maintained disinformation campaigns.
from:
http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/ask-ed-grow-questions-and-answers-tomato-model
Question: I am curious to know: will [legalization efforts in California] open the door for major corporations to take over the industry? Can you please educate me?
Christopher, California
Ed’s Rosenthal: Yes! And you are not going to be able to get any pot except if you are fingerprinted and have your photo taken! I know that is the answer you are expecting to hear…
However, I think that we are going to experience the “Tomato Model” with the legalization of marijuana.
More tomatoes are grown in America by home gardeners than are produced commercially. Yet there is a robust commercial market for tomatoes and tomato products of all types: canned, vine-ripened, organic, sauces, soups, ketchup, etc. At the same time, small-scale specialty cultivators do well swelling their produce at Farmers’ Markets, and home gardeners with extra tomatoes share the bounty with neighbors as gifts, in trade, or through informal sales. Marijuana could be handled in the same way. Commercial growers can thrive side-by-side with home and specialty cultivators.
An appropriate question, as there are only 309 days left until it is legal here!
CA, CA, CA! c’mon guys there is a world outside the westcoast. any prosecution anywhere is unconscionable. when i saw state after state allowing semi-regulated medical cannabis use i was excited and figured a brave new world with a new freedom to enjoy (without having to worry about gettin knocked by those power-corrupted pigs) was soon at hand. and that it would even make its way here to the eastcoast (eventually). when cali was fighting for medical-use there was resounding support from the entire nation’s pot-loving community. so i ask you, brothers and sisters, should we be more worried about legalization in just one area? i very well may be wrong, and truly hope i am, but it seems like the “i gots mine” mentality is contagious on the westcoast. In my mind this fight will not end until there is GLOBAL legalization and no one is forced to live in fear. that may seem fantastical and even impossible but i know many people feel the same way. DON’T GIVE UP THE FIGHT, ANYWHERE UNTIL ALL ARE FREE
wow if the price dropped 80 per cent then it would make it hard for growers with the electric cost .Also hand trimming and the rest of the hard work that goes into making it.So if it did drop 80 per cent it would have to be out doors ,like most commercial weed .That could be a problem ,greedy corporations trying to starve out any competition ,to control the market ,wile paying low slave wages to the workers,under paid farmers.
THIS NATION of CALIFORNIA IS DOOMED WITHOUT THIS INITIATIVE PASSING . TAXING WILL HELP OUR NATION .
CA Prop 19: Legal, Regulated Marijuana Favored 50%-40% in New Poll
California’s Proposition 19, which will legalize, regulate and tax marijuana, is currently winning, 50 percent yes to 40 percent no, according to a new SurveyUSA poll of likely voters sponsored by CBS 5 KPIX-TV.
SurveyUSA 7/8-11
Prop. 19:
Certain Yes 50
Certain No 40
Not Certain 11
(Note: Because of rounding, poll does not always add up to 100 percent)
This is an automatic poll of 614 likely voters with a margin of error of 4 percent. The poll shows a substantially higher preference for marijuana legalization than other recent surveys from Field Research and Reuters/Ipsos , which both had the measure losing narrowly.
Digging deeper in the numbers, not surprisingly, we see that young voters, 18-34, overwhelmingly support Prop. 19 by a margin of 70-22, while voters over 65 oppose it 50-37. Republicans as a whole oppose the initiati
in hawaii, there’s nothing like growing great cannabis in the backyard.
disp owners don’t want the pricing exposed…people are HAPPY paying 40-65 an 8th…thats stupid…all about the money
OK Russ I appreciate your response.
If I wasn’t for a change and was for the status quo, my comments would’ve been obviously snarky or nasty. You are likely a bit defensive for good reason, but I’m on your side.
Anyway it is a fine article and I share your concerns and opinions, so don’t toss me in a cell!
The corporations use their wealth to fund excessive marketing and exposure to shape opinions of voting sheep and there’s no reason to believe this industry would be a departure with so much money involved. Home growers will be standing in the path of those profits and will be a target, mark my words. This is a lot different than home brewing and I cannot believe they will leave any orange unsqueezed. The difficulty of taxing home harvests will be used as a reason to attempt to not allow it. Some of the new medical cannabis laws being drawn up are cutting out personal cultivation and this shows a disturbing tactical trend, IMO.
As it stands, I’d vote for Prop 19 because I, like you, would take any legalization over none, but at my age, I’m more careful about my info.
I came to this site as the best source, because I wanted to balance the issue here in contrast to the opposing site I cannot seem to find again, sorry.
*So one could use 5×5, but the 1 oz possession at home is unrealistic. Has to be 1 years supply at the minimum. Details later.
*Your response regarding penalties is somewhat logical and I now understand, thanks. Mandatory minimums are still unnecessary for anything.
*Didn’t know there was no state tax (?), the taxes will still be there and they would be properly localized. That’s cool. They’ll find a way to tax the home grower. Puzzles me it’s not there as a carrot for support.
Russ: “And again with the “big corporate friends”. So what? Let Philip Morris try to grow quality buds. If they make ’em clean and trimmed and no toxins and potent and cheap, great! If not, we’ll grow our own or buy from boutique growers. Why this huge fear of “Big Cannabis”? Is this just a reflexive abhorrence of capitalism in general?”
Yes, Russ, it is. Actually more of a suspicious knee-jerk reaction than abhorrance. There’s such a thing as extreme capitalism, IMO, and we are victimized daily by marketing based upon deception and psychological manipulation rather than informational deliberation of the merits of a given product. I’m head shy.
Thanks for the article, and we cynical, been there-been burned oldies will maintain the cautious optimism.
Here is why I know that 15 year olds smoking is not a bad thing:
I am 16 years old. I recently finished sophomore year, with straight A’s. I ended up with the highest scores in my class for finals, and I couldn’t have done it without cannabis. I smoked every single day, before school I would have at least 3 bong hits. I ended up hallucinating and seeing lots of patterns on the walls and my teachers faces, but pot allowed my thoughts to slow down so I could finally think. If I had not smoked every day, I would not have gotten a 4.0 average. Last year I didn’t smoke every day, and I got C’s and D’s.
Therefor I think I am living proof that cannabis can be benificial to even young minds.
Andres Colon
just to let you know most people in this country live in a non medical marijuana state so this article really only applies to a quarter of the U.S. who have the convenience of dispensaries
Hey Andres
I must respond to your post here if you’re 16. I never toked til I was 18, only because that’s when my 2 older bros stoned me while home for the holidays. Not preachin, but I’ve always been glad that I never was exposed until into my senior year in HS. My younger bro did much earlier and survived, but it did him no favors.
Please keep in mind that your perception of yourself is self fullfilling and if you see yourself as a better student as a toker, then you will subconsciously do things to make it happen. I’d suggest that you have it in you because you’ve always had it in you, so don’t think or say (don’t reinforce)that you need the weed to excel at studies. It’s possible that it helped you settle down to study, or it helped you get into it, but your brains were and always will be there, pot or no pot. I hope you are mature enough to know that and understand my point. In my experience, when I got too buzzed in the AM, or had a weed hangover from the night before, my comprehension was definately hindered. [Please nobody respond and tell me there is no such phenomenon-Potent indicas do this if your tolerance is low.]
Also remember that you are still maturing, and even if you are bright and relatively mature, you are not there yet. Take it easy and take your time, you have plenty. Regardless of your example, no matter how good, adults don’t like the idea of adolescents using pot, and your post here doesn’t help the effort, sorry. You may think this is contradictory, or a double standard, but you will most likely agree in 5 years.
Seriously take care…
But how did it work for tobacco? It seems like the Phillip Morris’s of the country can afford their lobbyists to restrict growth and sale of it. I’ll bet they see this ‘new crop’ as a way to add SO MUCH MORE revenue to their dying tobacco sales. I’m pretty confident that when a big company gets into the mix things will change drastically.
Why not form a law that allows less restrictions to sign up for a license to smoke, carry, grow and sell to others with the same card? Why open this huge can of worms? The law is not retro active, so it will not release anyone who has been imprisoned for breaking the current ridiculous laws.
I’m just a little frustrated at those who drafted the proposal for prop 19, it’s a little juvenile and miscalculated.
It should really make us all look at it closer and imagine what would happen in the ‘real world’. What is the best way for all of us to enjoy it legally while respecting the future of the crop.
I’m forced to vote NO on this draft… I’m hoping the next will be a little more logical.
[Paul Armentano responds: A ‘no’ vote is a vote for the status quo, which in California means 60,000+ arrests annual for simple possession and 20,000+ felony arrests for cultivation. It is hard to envision how your ‘no’ vote, from the perspective of someone who allegedly favors reform, is ‘logical.’]
@Less Confused and Concerned: When you have billion dollar companies and their lobbyists in Washington… things can get pretty damn crazy. They will eventually make it harder to grow your own crops… as they have done with Tobacco… Trust me, it will not be a good thing.
The only way to keep things like they are is to support the dispensaries and make it easier to get a card to purchase from them. Sure you’ll eventually have large corporate collectives but as long as our dispensaries are protected by mandating “memberships”, things will never get out of hand for the rest of us.
Our own individual right to grow is the biggest issue here and any chance at that being compromised, I believe, is the biggest fight we NEED to have.
*note, I’m just a small personal grower with my card, things are great this way and I’m adamant at convincing anyone who smokes to save up a little money and attempt to get your card.
Sativa Lover-
Dude, you sound like a maniac. I have concerns, but Russ makes good points in the followup piece. I’d easily qualify for a card legitimately, although I want it for recreational use as well. I’m responsible and open minded enough to not need a sitter. And I have big brother worries about an asterisk on my DL, which is much more likely for a medical condition/remedy versus a homegrow permit (which may or may not be required).
Never been into tobacco, but I don’t know why one couldn’t grow their own, in fact if there are any readers out there who have the scoop on homegrown tobacco enlighten me. Is it legal to grow and sell homegrown tobacco @ the county mkt? Is it done? Why isn’t it taken advantage of? There are some wild and crazy strains of tobacco out there. At 5-6 bucks a pack it seems logical. How about homemade Copenhagen (BARF!)?
Too many international seed companies to squelch hi-performance seed production, so it will be unlikely the tobacco industry or anyone else will screw with the potency-ever. THANKS, MARC!
And as for additives, the consuming public for cannabis today is a lot different animal than the cigarette smoking public of the mid-twentieth century. Awareness of those additives in tobacco has made it impossible to lace the weed, especially in tree hugging CA (no offense anyone). And folks will be watching. No, I think it will all work out fine, and even if its later perceived as causing problems and gets repealed, or the feds step in, your green card will likely hold up forever.
So consider me in another state with no hope except viral legislation among states, or relocating away from my home and friends/family. Consider my 3 back injuries and my 42 year old back spasm that never quits, consider that I’m 1 in millions, and 90% of them are worse off than I. Consider the father and husband, who winds up in prison so his kids suffer heartbreak and embarrassment needlessly. The single mom, sports superstars and Tommy Chong! Can you hear violins? There are a LOT of people relying on you and your fortunate brethren, so hook us all up here.
Thank you for your support, you got mine. -G
Those 60,000 arrests can easily be lessened by applying for and getting your card. I understand that there are issues for some people as to why they can’t get their cards… for the rest, it comes down to money or just plain laziness. I’ve heard some stupid reasons from people why they don’t bother getting their cards… those dumbasses don’t get my sympathy when shit comes down on them. It just doesn’t make sense to me in the long run.
[Editor’s note: Actually, arrest rates in CA will not likely diminish under a continued medical cannabis only policy as 50,000-60,000 Californians were arrested annually before the state’s voters adopted Prop 215 in 1996.
For arrests, prosecutions, drug courts and incarcerations for cannabis offenses to diminish in CA the state has to first move away from decriminalization and medicalization and move towards controlling cannabis via legalization.]
Well maybe you’re not a maniac, but see it from a different percpective. You live where MC is possible, you got yours and are unworried about the future of your rights (given the status quo). Sounds great.
When the progressive states pass potent legislation, it helps us indirectly.
But law enforcement is freaking out and wants more power and a list. They have influence and an open microphone to the public. A routine traffic stop could turn ugly when they look you up on their puter and see the bright green potleaf icon flashing next to your name.
Editor… you’re not understanding my point. Even with legalization, you are only able to carry up to an ounce and are restricted to growing within a 25ft space, are you telling me all of a sudden everyone will be abiding by those rules? I don’t see how the rate will dramatically decrease all of a sudden… considering that if more marijuana users had a card they would be able to carry much more.
Educating users on what it means to carry a card and spreading the need and the ease of possessing a card is so important. We need to focus on expanding on the laws that are already working instead of jumping to complete legalization that would hurt the growers and cause so many more unexpected social and local government issues.
My personal opinion is that this draft is poorly written and needs to be revised before it starts making a little more sense.
Still, I take back my NO vote… I think I’ll just leave mine blank.
[Editor’s note: Prohibition creates all of the necessary incentives for law enforcement to keep focusing on cannabis, and neither ‘medicalization’ or ‘decriminalization’ sufficiently create the de-incentives for the astronomical (and racially disparate) cannabis arrests to abate.
Arguably only legalization can, and while hardly perfect, Prop 19–like another imperfect political vehicle in 1996, Prop 215 (which has worked out fairly well, but still not perfect by any means)–is a clear and good step in the right direction, and should be supported by all of those who think arresting responsibly acting people for cannabis is wrong and a poor use of limited government resources.]
That Seems to be The Attitude.The Greed will always show It’s Ugly Side.When I Worked with Ken Estes in The Early Stages of Prop 215 the Writing was on the wall to go 501C3.Jerry Brown was warning of “Things To Be”and That was Clear enough to Me.The Players “Who Got It” still Operate.The Ones who Didn;t “Get It” were excluded.Ken Whined but he didn’t go 501C3 Because he told me he can’t get A Federal Tax ID Number.Richard Lee Started to Pay Employees Tax on “A Cafe”and Went 501C3.He “Got It” as well as Jeff and Others who Pay Taxes.That Goes For Kathleen Lemons at The Hemp Center she was the Earliest Club to Pay The State Franchise Tax Board as A Cannabis Club.They Paid Taxes Because They Were Not Money Laundry INC.They Were all Able To Become 501C3s.That is Hard to do Though when your Fiscal Sponsor is a Vietnamese Gangster,HUH Kenny?I Love Ken Estes’ Medical Cannabis Music CD.Lets Hope When Prop 19 Passes The Vague details won’t be exploited by Rogue DAs and Gangsters.Nebulous Laws lead to Shenanigans.That is Human Nature.Prop 19 will be Interesting.We will make Our Poor Citizens Attempt to Dispense Cannabis From a Harm Reduction Center.Afterbthe Power Play In Oaklnd WE Wonder!Have The Rich Taken Over? Have They Always Controlled the Market?The Greedy Hungry Medical Cannabis Market drove The Premiums Such As Grandaddy Up to 4,300 from 3,200 in Four Years Time.That Pissed off Some Humboldt Old Timers When More Generator Grows Happened.That Made The Greedy Youngsters Happy.Bad Things Happen Such as Chris Giauque and Les that was The Dark Side.
Why can’t the federal government acknowledge that hemp is where the real money is at? All this talk on the bud, the benefits to a nation that grows hemp are endless. Especially now. Especially in times of economic meltdown.
“As population continues to grow in many nations, and the amount of farmland and water available to each person continues to shrink, a small farm structure may became central to feeding the planet.”
[Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future
by Bill McKibben]
Let us not just grow pot, why not just more have more crops in general. If the farms die, then the community dies. Big government can have hemp, the citizen-marijuana. It’ll just work.
“Here’s a suggestive piece of data about what that something might be: sociologists studying shopping behavior reported recently that consumers have then times as many conversations at farmers’ markets as they do at supermarkets. An order-of-magnitude differences. A simple change in economic life- where you shop- produces an enormous change in your social life. You go from being a mere consumer to being a participant, talking about what you like and dislike, expanding your sense of who’s in your community and how it fits together.”
[Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future
by Bill McKibben]
It works with local tomatoes, it’ll work with weed. And hemp- will work for the government.
I am not at all surprised by this, I buy my weed from an illegal source and he don’t want it to be legal because he thinks he will be out of business. It is human nature that everykone is after their own dollars.
I don’t know about it being human nature that everyone is after their own dollars……after their own maybe, whatever that may be. Unfortunately some do it at the expense of the freedom of others. That’s where the line is drawn between unselfish, compassionate, caring individuals and those that are only out for their own! Unless the selfish change, they will end up old and lonely.
I think adding chemicals to marijuana similar to those in cigarettes is absurd. The purpose of this legalization should be for the medicinal benefits that marijuana possesses, not just to make a buck.
How many people will want to smoke marijuana with chemicals added to them? The world hates Big Tobacco so much for that already when it comes to cigarettes that they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they were to come out of the gates like that.
But, any way you look at it, I’m a huge advocate of supporting my own community by supporting local business as much as possible. What a change it has made for the city of Long Beach.
@editor: “…and should be supported by all of those who think arresting responsibly acting people for cannabis is wrong and a poor use of limited government resources.”
Is it not a responsible thing to hold a valid medical card to smoke pot legally and not worry about being arrested? I think you are blurring the line between those who use marijuana responsibly and those who abuse it like any other drug. It’s sad to say but there is a distinct correlation between marijuana use and crime, not because using is a crime (especially when a ‘responsible’ user holds a medical card) but because it is (sadly) abused by those with tendencies for crime (and for getting ‘fucked up’ in any way they can.) I think using ‘annual arrest statistics’ is misleading. A responsible user will make any effort to do it legally by holding a medical card first.
[Editor’s note: It is hard to identify which of your baseless assertions is more incorrect, that non-medical cannabis users create ‘a distinct correlation between marijuana use and crime’ or that a ‘responsible use will make any effort to do it legally by holding a medical card first’? Why should a non-sick, dying or sense threatened adult have to go through the ridiculous legal hoops to effectively lie to a physician (in many cases they’re lying to unethical ‘pot docs’) to have a legal excuse to use cannabis in the privacy of their home? What is responsible about a system largely based on lying, unethical physicians and profiteering retailers?
If a person is genuinely sick, dying or sense threatened, and along with a physician they actually have a relationship with beyond a $100 credit card transaction ($75 cash, thank you!) believe cannabis is the best therapy for them, great. The government should not get in the way of that primary relationship and choice of therapies. But, today, the hundreds of retail dispensaries (found principally in CA, CO and MT) exist to serve the hundreds of thousands of citizens who’re self-evidently gaming the gray area between prohibition and medicalization.
Is this necessarily a bad thing? No. This is the American way.
During Alcohol Prohibition hundreds of thousands of Americans were able to get prescriptions to legally consume alcohol for ‘medical’ purposes. Cannabis prohibition laws may well be following a similar path.]
Cannabis laws are headed in the same path I’d have to agree. And they will! American’s often blur the line between the abuser and responsible user. We have this way of thinking that says, “Oh, two beers made me feel great-why not drink five more?”
More more more is all we want, and so far almost every attempt at this more has been successful. Except for one thing; oil. Now the economies failing and will continue to fail (which I”m sure they know) and Voila- Cannabis is still around through all the mess as if to say “I’m still here!”
If only our politicians worked in a quicker manner all of us could actually start living the way of the future today.
It’s survival of the fittest out there, whether it be cigarette consumption, drinking alcohol, or smoking marijuana- it all comes down to choice. And yes there are always those who will be greedy. It’s up to us to be greedier than the selfish and take what’s ours!
I don’t know, but I’m excited for the near future. Even the dispensary guy will see that the “I got’s mine” mentality will only work for so long. When it comes to cannabis, we all got ours…
I disagree about growers adulterating it…one could say the alcohol industry enjoys many fine brands of top shelf brands that are created with customer quality in mind, and many cheaper types for those on a budget (think Jack Daniels special aged single barrel vs ripple. When selling weed legally, there will always be a demand for carefully bred product, and the cheap stuff, but it will mean prices will go down overall.
SCREW the feds,states,municipalities,po-lice depts and EVERYONE else. I’m 67 yrs old and I KNOW MY OWN MIND!! I will defend with my life my right to do with MY LIFE as I please without interference from any of the above. I am hurting no one and CERTAINLY NOT MYSELF!!! I have less arthritis pain and will stand up for my GOD given rights to use what HE has blessed us with!! DAMN anyone who interferes!!!!!!!
P.S. Read the book of Genisis and see WHO gave the herbs to man. Who are we to debate his will?????
I don’t agree with the editor. It’s not lying when you get your marijuana card and how dare you make that statement. When I went, I told him I’m having pains in my back because of work. Its that fucking easy… and it isn’t lying. If you smoke it because you want to get fucked up and be an idiot, go ahead. I am a responsible user who not only wants to get fucked up but wants to get rid of pain too. GET YOUR DAMN CARD!!! Its not “lying” to the “unethical pot docs” like you say. I hate that you say that. Who are you anyways? And what makes you such a pot guru that you have the balls to say things like that?
I’ve seen the biggest losers abuse pot, these losers don’t get their cards because they have priors and are afraid to be on record because of their seedy lifestyle. Those are the ones who aren’t responsible.
Going through hoops??? Are you kidding me?? Again you don’t understand how all of this works… so how dare you put the people who get their cards down like that? how dare you. Profiteering retailers??? What?
It’s article writers like you that make me realize even the one’s who think they’re Guru’s in the field and are standing up for the little guy are just as clueless about it all. Lets all just make it legal so every dumbass will try pot and kids will have even more of a reason to give it a sample… so now everyone will be fucked up and numb… THOSE are the responsible users you’re talking about?
I got my card, I have access to great collectives with nice, real, old school hippy growers who love the crop like a good wine. I enjoy it, it lessens the pain… EVERYONE is on Advil or Tylenol… so this is a great replacement. How is that “lying” to get my card. Idiot.
(kudos to you if you approve this and not edit it out… )
Hey Freebird, why don’t you read the article again as well as some of the better constructed arguments in the comments that don’t take any personal pot shots at the author. Personal insults such as IDIOT don’t add any weight to your argument.
Also, something tells me that you are in the 18-20 year old category. Especially when you make the irresponsible suggestion that kids should be trying it as well.
I can ascertain that it is you, firebird, that doesn’t know all that there is to know on this subject to make an educated and factual statement.
Thanks for this info – hadn’t considered this aspect of the legalization situation before. I only recently took advantage of the medical program here in CA, and am now quite curious where they stand on this issue at the dispensary I’ve been patronizing.
Any suggestions on ways to find out which dispensaries do and do not support Prop. 19, and what we might do or say as their customers responding to an anti-legalization position?
Jeez. You guys are all smoking crack! Have any of you read the TWELVE pages of this “legalization” document? First of all, makes legalization conditional. A true legalization prop would be a couple of paragraphs like 215 was. It is not a first step as you all seem to believe. It is only a step for a very few individuals to make all the profit. Second, as most of you seem to be in denial of, the price will be regulated by those few that are allowed to sell it. They will set the price, like they already do, at the amount that they know you will pay for it. If you want the price to go down, then make it truly legal where the market will be flooded. Instead, this prop will keep illegally grown weed to be sold at top dollar to get the good stuff instead of the Phillip Morris dumb down Coors Light weed. Third, you have to remember who is forcing this through, Richard Lee, a guy who put 1.9 million dollars behind getting the ballot signatures. He already makes 30 million a year. Why would he put through a measure that removes his ability to do that? He has a warehouse near the Oakland airport ready to grow millions of dollars of weed. He doesn’t want your competition. That’s the point of this. Not for the common good, I can assure you, but for his own personal gain. Fourth, when ever has the government done the right thing with your money? NEVER. Just try and remember the lottery issue. We got told all the money would go to the school system, which it did, however, every cent that it generated for the school system got removed from the general budget, for the school system, and result? NOTHING CHANGED, except that the general fund got all that money. What did they do wit it? What are they dong with it now? Surely not fixing ANYTHING. The state is still broke and even even Conan the Conqueror and the Terminator couldn’t do any better than the guy we vilified and threw out. How soon we forget. You all just want to believe that your going to get free or cheap weed. You are to lazy to get a recommendation from your doctor, and to cheap. You will be justly rewarded for your stupidity. You don’t even realize that your 5×5 area will grwo more than one ounce of weed and that you will immediately be a criminal for posessing more than that. You are idealistic idiots, they kind that fuels the republican party’s hatred for liberals. The absolute worst ramification of this? You will forever destroy the self reliant economy that we have created in this state. That is OK, though, the big banks and filthy rich who own everything already will love you for it. Great job morons. Smoke some more pot. Greedy government officials everywhere are counting on your repeated stupidity. That is how the republican party gets elected by a mass of the population that they don’t serve. You are the epitome of American politics. The universe is laughing at you behind your backs.
[Editor’s note: So, one can place you in the ‘no’ camp along with narcs, alcohol interests, the drug czar, the ‘addiction rehabbers’, Scientologists and Senator Diane Feinstein.
Your ‘reasons’ why you don’t support the liberation of millions of people who consume cannabis are all pathetic and if you want to know what a moron looks like, find a mirror.
Prop 215 is conditional….less than 50% of the counties in CA allow medical cannabis sales. According to your flawed thinking, Prop. 215 should never have passed because the laws are ‘conditional’.
You feign concern for pricing…today’s so-called ‘medical’ cannabis is just as expensive as cannabis sold in ‘illegal’ channels. Under Prop 19 the government does not set the price of cannabis, but under Prop 215 medical cannabis providers set the prices…which are the same as ‘dealers’ charge non-medical consumers.
Richard Lee, a medical patient in a wheelchair, has put up most of the money for the passage of Prop 19 and is the hero to millions of cannabis consumers for his clear contribution towards enhancing personal freedom in America. BTW, under Prop 215, not Prop 19, businessman in Oakland (ie, Jeff Wilcox) are already planning to grow massive amounts of cannabis in warehouses (that the local government donated the land for these massive urban grow-ops)…and sold at Prohibition level pricing.
What, according to your world view, no conspiracy here between ‘big’ business and ‘greedy’ government…and all done under the auspices of Prop 215, not Prop 19?! Where’s your outrage?!
Lastly, if you can only grow one ounce of cannabis from a 5 x 5 plot, you are a very incompetent gardener and should rely on a truly free market absent Prohibition to just buy your smokes at a retail outlet for the lowest price.
If medical patients want to keep paying $15-$25 a gram for ‘medical’ cannabis, continue the government tyranny created by prohibition laws, keep the arrest rate up to 70,000 a year in CA and soon see their whole-smoked medicine be replaced by FDA-approved pharmaceuticals derived from the cannabis plant, by all means vote ‘no’ on Prop. 19.
For the rest of the sane world, we’ll be supporting and voting ‘yes’ on Prop. 19 this November to help end Cannabis Prohibition in our lifetime.]
The shenanigans will always happen.Money is Involved and that always brings out the greedy Bastards who already have Money.
The City Needs to work with The Growers and that will allow for everone to pay taxes and have a Piece of the Pie.
Setting the Economic Hurdles Too High will cause Ordinary citizens TO DO Whateve it takes to GET THEIRS.The end Justifys the means in some of the minds.That would be Okay if they aren’t using gang money.HUH Ken Estes!
Just Because some Fuck up doesn’t mean that the Privelage be revoked forever for all concerned.We can count on Shenanigans.Like The kind that happend after Prop 215.
We are forthcoming!The SHIT will happen!
The Worse thing that can happen is the status quo.That is truly insane.
Rodney G Jones in such a Mindless Rhetoric Spewer that he will never realize how stupid and Rhetorical his Statement was.I Feel Sorry for Fontana for having such an Ignorant Police Chief.
Prop 19 will help you in your fight against violence.
I am so Tired of Cannabis being Linked with the Violence that HARD DRUGS cause.
Any Drug sold from a street corner is Dangerous.DUH!!
He Talks about Issues that prop 19 is Needed to Help Stop and He does Not See That.How Blind and Stupid!
Prop 19 allows for OTC sales and that eliminates the danger of street sales.DUH!!
The dangers will Go away when the black Market is taken away.
There will always be a Black Market aimed at Kids.
It is the Job of Everyone to Keep Cannabis away from the Kids and The Sub Scum Bastards who would give it too Them need to Go to PRISON.That is in the Law.
So Stop The OLD RHETORIC and Just Vote YES for a law that will beat the Hell out of the Status Quo.We can Amend what is Nebulous Later.
The Reefer Madness Must End Now!
Just Vote YES
Thanks for that great post. Visit medical marijuana orange county to see how we’re helping.
@ Cali dude #114:
“Jeez. You guys are all smoking crack! Have any of you read the TWELVE pages of this “legalization” document? First of all, makes legalization conditional.”
I’ve read the entire document. ‘Conditional’ legalization is to be expected in the Cannabis situation at this time. Many people are ignorant, and therefore afraid. It will take time for restrictions to loosen. This proposition was a step – a step toward better legalization, a potentially won battle in a very long and costly war.
“A true legalization prop would be a couple of paragraphs like 215 was.”
Please explain why you believe that.
Because solid legal documents are always short? Because recreational use is the same as medical use?
Because developing human bodies and minds are not more sensitive to potentially harmful effects?
Because a psychoactive and motor-affective substance poses zero dangers on the road?
“It is not a first step as you all seem to believe. It is only a step for a very few individuals to make all the profit.”
I can see how that would be your concern, if you’re a greed-motivated participant in the lucrative production or distribution of marijuana currently.
However, as many more people share my perspective of being one continually raped financially, socially and legally by Government and the Black/Gray Markets they have created/allowed, your arguments are obviously totally self-interested and lacking any true compassion for those you claim to serve.
“Second, as most of you seem to be in denial of, the price will be regulated by those few that are allowed to sell it. They will set the price, like they already do, at the amount that they know you will pay for it. If you want the price to go down, then make it truly legal where the market will be flooded. Instead, this prop will keep illegally grown weed to be sold at top dollar to get the good stuff instead of the Phillip Morris dumb down Coors Light weed.”
Here you are either confusing two separate issues (legalization and corporatism), or actually claiming to have opposed Prop. 19 so as to keep prices from going up or holding at the already prohibition-inflated levels you now enjoy and support … contradictory?
“Third, you have to remember who is forcing this through, Richard Lee, a guy who put 1.9 million dollars behind getting the ballot signatures. He already makes 30 million a year. Why would he put through a measure that removes his ability to do that? He has a warehouse near the Oakland airport ready to grow millions of dollars of weed. He doesn’t want your competition. That’s the point of this. Not for the common good, I can assure you, but for his own personal gain.”
Again, you prove my point that all persons or organizations currently making money off of marijuana during prohibition is suspect – that includes you. Why should we trust your true intentions any more than you trust his?
“Fourth, when ever has the government done the right thing with your money? NEVER. Just try and remember the lottery issue. We got told all the money would go to the school system, which it did, however, every cent that it generated for the school system got removed from the general budget, for the school system, and result? NOTHING CHANGED, except that the general fund got all that money. What did they do wit it? What are they dong with it now? Surely not fixing ANYTHING. The state is still broke and even even Conan the Conqueror and the Terminator couldn’t do any better than the guy we vilified and threw out. How soon we forget.”
Again, you are confusing issues. Government use of tax money has nothing to do with my right to legally use Cannabis as a responsible adult. You did not vote against misuse of revenue by the Feds … you voted against lower prices on your cash cow.
“You all just want to believe that your going to get free or cheap weed.”
That’s true. It’s a plant that grows abundantly in the wild. It should not cost as much as it does. Medicine (including Cannabis) should not cost as much as it does. Food should not cost as much as it does. Shelter should not cost as much as it does. Fuel should not cost as much as it does. You’re proud to be one of the few driving the many to suffer and die for the artificial cost of life’s necessities?
“You are to lazy to get a recommendation from your doctor, and to cheap.”
I have my recommendation. To pay for that ‘privilege’ and continually for the medicine itself proves that I am not cheap. Since I have to work hard for the money to pay the MedPot Industry it’s prohibition-profiteer rates, that proves I am not lazy. Many people who could benefit from Cannabis do not have these luxuries, for being on lower incomes. It is an increasing hardship for even myself.
“You will be justly rewarded for your stupidity. You don’t even realize that your 5×5 area will grow more than one ounce of weed and that you will immediately be a criminal for possessing more than that.”
You are the stupid one, as you misunderstood the law as written. One who grows in the legal space may posses everything produced in that space, including past harvests. One ounce is only the limit on what may be possessed outside of your residence.
“You are idealistic idiots, they kind that fuels the republican party’s hatred for liberals.”
Why are you equating the views of those who disagree with you with political party affiliation? Seems like you are attempting to use the same divisive partisanship that government uses to confuse the issues …
“The absolute worst ramification of this? You will forever destroy the self reliant economy that we have created in this state.”
That is the plan, and that is alright – because I care more about people (including myself) suffering across the planet under prohibition, than your self-reliant economy created in your state … you’ve selfishly made a global issue into a local one, a human rights issue into a financial concern.
“That is OK, though, the big banks and filthy rich who own everything already will love you for it. Great job morons. Smoke some more pot. Greedy government officials everywhere are counting on your repeated stupidity.”
Wrong again. How do you think government, banks and various other wealthy gain and keep their power? On the backs of others. Using prohibition to target the poorer members of society. This is what you choose to continue. We will end prohibition, we will stop feeding those who would bleed us dry, whether they be in Big Government, Banking or MedPot.
“That is how the republican party gets elected by a mass of the population that they don’t serve. You are the epitome of American politics. The universe is laughing at you behind your backs.”
No – the universe is weeping. You’re the only one laughing … for now.
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45$ / eighth oz.
so we are still looking at 360 dollars per ounce, for a plant that grows easily. I encourage any legal medical marijuana user to grow their own medicine in an effort to drive down the costs for those who cannot grow.
the people that are largely all 4 prohibition are the ones who are capitalizing from it. lots of money in the black market.
I am from boston anybody no’s do I have to a card to buy weed out there
Seven years have passed since I commented.
The REEFER MADNESS in waning .
Medical Cannabis is now mainstream .
The Old School Growers left standing GET IT
Greed still has its grip on our community.
There is no longer the need to hide .
The BEST PRACTICE is to obtain all permits when cultivating. Assuring the electrical is totally legal. Those grows usually NEVER GET RAIDED.
Because they have done their best to COMPLY .
Prop 215 was nebulous from the start allowing rogue DAs to take advantage of the confusion.
The biggest flaw was “The Burden of Proof” placed on the defense in cultivation cases.
I won an appeal due to this burden of proof being unconstitutional . People vs Giangiobbe
So many cases paved the way to our current status
So many brave principals like Ken Estes
His longevity is epic.
Did all the youngsters think the status quo came without sacrifice ? HELL NO