I’ve spent the weekend reading various blogs that have sprouted up in opposition to Proposition 19, California’s effort to legalize marijuana this November. These “Stoners Against Legalization” blogs confound me; they remind me of Sam Kinison’s line comparing “Rock Against Drugs” to “Christians Against Christ”.
Some of these blogs are based on the notion that legalization would be worse than “what we have now”. The assumption there is that if you smoke marijuana in California, you must already have your Prop 215 recommendation from a doctor, and you’d be losing your rights under Prop 19.
Most marijuana smokers, believe it or not, are healthy and aren’t comfortable spending money for a doctor to give them permission to use cannabis. Currently we face a ticket, fine, and misdemeanor drug conviction record for possession an ounce or less of cannabis. That record prevents us from getting student aid and can cost us our jobs, child custody, and housing, or if we’re on probation, our freedom. (Even if California succeeds at downgrading possession to an infraction from a misdemeanor, a $100 ticket is a lot of money to some people!) We face a felony charge if we grow even one plant at home. For us, Prop 19 is much better than “what we have now”.
Another thing that appears in some of these blogs is outright misinformation, such as talk of a $50/ounce state tax (it’s not in the initiative; that was Ammiano’s bill) or that it would supersede Prop 215 (it wouldn’t, and Prop 19 even references Prop 215 in its language, so it couldn’t). Others play up the “millionaires”, “big corporations”, and “monopolies” that would be created and the earnest Emerald Triangle family growers who’d be put out of business (which amuses me: Prop 19 allows localities to regulate sales, so why wouldn’t Humboldt, Trinity, and Mendocino county residents whose economy depends on pot sales lobby really hard to get legalized pot sales OK’d in those counties and cities within, and regulated in a way that protects the small grower?)
Two notable sticking points have to do with minors below 21: Prop 19 creates a new crime in being an adult over 21 who gives marijuana to adults aged 18-20 and Prop 19 forbids adults over 21 from smoking where minors are present. Prop 19’s penalties in the first situation mirror the penalties for giving alcohol to 18-20-year-olds; but, yes, it is disturbing to create a new statute that calls for jail time over marijuana. It’s also questionable whether an adult should be punished for smoking pot if their child can see them – we don’t even require that of alcohol and tobacco.
But are these reason enough to continue ruining the lives of people 21 and older? Besides, if you’re over 21 smoking with some 18-year-olds or in front of some minors, and you’re doing it inside your home, who is to know? And if you’re 18-20, wouldn’t you love being legal in 1 to 3 years?
Because the biggest thing Prop 19 does, the forest that these blogs are missing for the trees, is LEGALIZE ADULT MARIJUANA CULTIVATION AND POSSESSION.
Even under Prop 215, the adult cannabis consumer is guilty of being a criminal unless proven innocent as a patient. When Prop 19 passes, the adult cannabis consumer is considered innocent until proven guilty. It is a complete game changer for law enforcement, because:
- the smell of marijuana on your person is no longer probable cause to search you;
- that joint in your pocket means nothing;
- the seizure of stems, leaves, and seeds from your trash is irrelevant;
- a couple of baggies with weed residue in them are just garbage;
- the sight of that bong on your table visible through the kitchen window isn’t a “welcome” mat for a police search;
- your utility bills raising a bit for water and lights don’t matter;
- your neighbors smelling skunky plants is just a nuisance, not the source for an “anonymous tip”;
- receipts for lights, soil, fertilizer, ballasts, trimmers, and stuff are meaningless;
- infrared signatures of your home aren’t evidence of anything;
- marijuana sniffing K-9 units are out of a job; and
- pre-employment drug testing programs become harder for businesses to maintain for cannabis.
Basically, one of the simplest tools law enforcement has for harassing cannabis consumers – the sight and smell of cannabis and paraphernalia – is no longer in the tool belt. As long as you’re an adult, keep your grow in a 5’x5′ area, don’t smoke in front of kids, and don’t leave the house with over an ounce, you are free from police harassment.
And even if you don’t follow the law perfectly, who’s to know? If you’re pulled over and there’s an ounce and a half in your backpack, how does that cop know? Does it “smell heavy” in your car? So long as you refuse a search, how will he know? The smell of pot isn’t cause for a search; you’re allowed to have an ounce of it.
If you have a 10’x10′ garden, who’s to know? Is the electric bill that much higher? Does the garden smell more (probably not at all if you build a good grow room)? Plus don’t forget that you’re allowed to have more than one ounce, namely, any amount that you grow within your 5’x5′ garden, at the location of the garden. I think by the time law enforcement came back with a warrant to investigate how big my garden is, three-fourths of it would be cut down and I would suddenly have my 5’x5′ garden and my hanging plants from the last 5’x5′ area I harvested.
Suppose there is four pounds of marijuana at my house. Why, officer, that’s the results from my last legal 5’x5′ personal garden harvest. What, you don’t see any 5’x5′ growing space? Well, I used to grow, but I took down my garden and sold my equipment after my last harvest. Why, yes, they were some pretty big plants. No, I didn’t take any pictures, because what I was doing was perfectly legal. (Prop 19 also has a nice affirmative defense to claim the marijuana in your home was for your personal use. These blogs never seem to notice that.)
So on The NORML Stash Blog I’ve decided to write a word-for-word analysis of Prop 19, mainly because it seems like many of the people against it have never read it. Standard disclaimer: I am no lawyer… hell, I’m not even a college graduate. Click here to read my Word-for-Word Analysis of Prop 19.
I hope prop 19 passes. The federal government is going to have to change its laws before cannabis will really be legal and decriminalized.
As far as all of the discovery that cannabis CAN be used as a medicine, why it is still illegal is a smokescreen to something else behind the feds hidden agenda.
Good stuff Russ. The stupidity coming from the prohibitionists is one thing — who would have expected anything else?
But for people within the cannabis community to object to this is unforgivable. Essentially what they’re saying is that any specific, tangential concerns they have are more important than basic freedom — as in NOT GETTING ARRESTED — for everyone else in the state. It’s the height of myopic selfishness, and destroys whatever credibility the speaker may have had.
[Russ responds: One retort I’ve heard to this is that nobody gets arrested for under an ounce – the amount Prop 19 legalizes – they only get a ticket (and a $100 fine, and record of a misdemeanor marijuana conviction – they never mention that) So, uh, I should prefer a ticket+fine+criminal-drug-record to not-a-ticket?
To this, they respond that California is working on downgrading an ounce from a misdemeanor to an infraction, so no criminal record. Oh, so I should prefer ticket+fine+maybe-not-a-criminal-drug-record to not-a-ticket?
And growing even one plant is a felony with long prison time. I should choose to keep that over a legal 5’x5′ garden and all the weed I can harvest from it?
All so I can go spend money to deceive a doctor to get my Prop-215 recommendation so I can smoke pot in public with teenagers at a concert or in front of little kids at my house?
LEGAL vs. illegal… it’s a really simple choice, California cannabis consumers. This will be a very close vote and if it loses by a margin of “I Gots Mine”-brainwashed young people voting for their own continued criminal status, I will be forced to drive down I-5 and slap you all silly. 🙂 ]
nice blog. legalize it, son!
This is simply propaganda by the conservatives. Don’t worry, all of the people who were going to vote for it are still going to vote for it and those that weren’t wont. This is a stupid attempt to muddy the waters. Thankfully this reeks of desperation and this should e seen as a good sign for us. 😉
I’m not from CA but from KY whose number one cash crop is what else?marijuana and has been for at least 20-30 years.They have yet to allowe medicinal marijuana much less legalizing it as of yet but it is being pushed.Problem is here that the state county and city governments are strife with corruption,many of them working with the drug cartels in this state,mainly the judicial system abd law enforcement also some DEA agents who are also on the bad side.With their economy as bad as it is one would think they would welocme the tax revenue by making it legal
I moved back to Cali from NC last year, part of the reason was to vote FOR Prop 19 and I will do just that. To oppose this legislation is absurd.
I have no problem with any of the provisions of Prop 19, if anything, passsage of this bill should permit cops to go after real criminals and reduce much of the back log in our court system as well as get nonviolent offenders out of jails and off tax payer’s dollars.
I just felt a lil piece of civil liberties come back.. 🙂 .. got a question if any one wants to take a wack at it.. you can have up to a Zip (1 ounce) on you.. but is their a limit on how much i can have of harvested bud in my own home? 2nd questions.. lets say i am in a car.. 4 people over 21.. does this mean each of us is allow to carry ouz personal zip? so we can legally transport 4 zips?? 3 questions, does prop 19, effect how or if .. police can still collect the medical records and finaicial records from MMJ Disperceries.. ?? 4th question, i keep hearin mmj dispence owners talkin bout how they dun want this to pass.. (freaking &^*%$!!) but are their patient out thur opening p.19? now they can use their meds without having to worry about being charge for Child Abuse cuz their a 215 approved.. i only see it adds protection to 215, doesnt take nothing away..
[Russ responds: Again, I’m no lawyer, but:
1) You can have as much harvested bud at the site of your 5’x5′ grow as you have harvested from your 5’x5′ grow. How much is that? How much you got? Would 100 lbs be reasonable “personal consumption”? Well, maybe, if you’ve been harvesting a 5’x5′ for ten years and never smoking any. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out, because there is also a line in Prop 19 giving you an affirmative defense if you’re accused of it being more than personal.
2) Four adults 21+ = Four people allowed to carry around an ounce on them each.
3) Prop 19 forbids cops from seizing, destroying, or threatening to destroy your harvested buds and plants for personal use. Cops busting dispensaries is another subject and I don’t think Prop 19 addresses it one way or the other.
4) What dispensary owner would want adults easy access to their own or their friends’ cannabis when currently they have to go to the trouble of paying the pot doctor for a Prop 215 recommendation and then shopping for buds at $45/eighth at their dispensary?
5) If you’re a Prop 215 patient who really thinks cops will burst in the door to haul you off to prison for child abuse for puffing on your bong while your kid watches “Veggie Tales”, here’s a simple solution: go in your bathroom and shut the door and puff your bong. Are people in California really believing that we should continue to ticket, arrest, and imprison all healthy California adults for cannabis because we’re not doing enough to protect sick ones with kids in their homes?]
Thanks for speaking out :] you have the right idea–“what we have now” is law enforcement CORRUPTION and discrimination against smart, productive people from all walks of life! LEGALIZE!
REPEAL the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937
[Paul Armentano responds: Cannabis is illegal federally because it is classified as a Schedule I substance under the US CSA of 1970. The 1937 federal law no longer applies, and was struck down by SCOTUS in 1969.]
Great analysis of the initiative. It is a sad state of affairs when cannabis advocates are against what they have been striving for. Apparently ,the advocates that are against this initiative are as guilty as law enforcement, the prison industry, the lawyers, the judges, the treatment clinics, and so on. These advocates are, in my opinion, worse than the prohibionists. These advocates continue to use the quasi-legal of cannabis to benefit themselves by taking advantage of the price inflation caused by prohibition.
The fear mongering has to stop. The only reason these growers and suppliers are in opposition to this initiative is becuase they are in fear of losing profits. These same individuals will tout that large corporations will come in and ruin cannabis for everyone. They are too blinded by greed to see that if they don’t help to pass this initiative they are as guilty, if not more so, than the prohibionists and the most ironic thing is that they both want to keep cannabis illegal for the same reason. Their livelihoods depend on it.
Be brave California and help propel cannabis and hemp into the 21st century. We can retuyn to what our ancestors knew and help our planet survive and repair itself. Everything that can be made from petroleum can be made from hemp without poisoning our planet. Imagine actually asking for plastic at the store because the bags will bio-degrade and return to the ecosystem to be used again and again. Imagine growing fuel instead of drilling for it and avoiding any more ecological disasters such as we have in the Gulf.
[Russ responds: I’m reminded of a time in my club musician days when Karaoke first became popular. We all screamed and cried that Karaoke and the corporations pushing it were putting musicians out of business.
And indeed, lots of musicians did lose gigs.
The bad ones.
All through the Karaoke craze, I managed to keep working as a musician, playing almost every weekend from 1988-2003. But lots of really poor “Takin’ Care of Business” cover bands went out of business.
I think it will be similar for small-time growers. If you’ve been producing high-quality manicured buds of consistent potency, if you’ve been good to your customers and have charged them reasonable prices, you’ll keep on keeping on. You may have to lower your prices, but if you’re selling illegally, you’re still dodging “the Man” like you always have.
Also, if you’re good at what you do and your locality allows for sales, you could parlay your clandestine cottage industry into a real above-ground career.
But if you’re just a guy who cranks out weed without much care for your customers, always looking to make that buck without any concern about using chemicals, overcharging them for weed you know is substandard but, hey, where else ya gonna go?… then maybe you shouldn’t be making a mint off of cannabis consumers any more.
If you’re still having problems deciding, just ask yourself: do you really want to be voting on the same side of the issue as the cops and the prohibitionists?]
i want to walk around and smoke weed so legalize it.
Thanks for exposing the recent replies found on blogs that is trying to cause confusion among voters. It seems odd how it pops up when election day is getting closer as if it is being done on purpose by those who opposes legalization.
To Charles in Ky. I am also from KY. You are absoulutely right about everything! My son just got in trouble, and I learned alot about our system, they are all in it together!!!
prop 19 could be the gateway to legal cannabis worldwide. i am really hoping it passes!! good luck and spread the word everyone. we’ve had enough jailtime and its time we can buy top quality cannabis legally,convinent adn safely
Did you see this article on the front of nytimes.com? http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/20/us/20pot.html?hp
To what extent is the pro-marijuana force campaigning?
Let’s get this info out, otherwise lots of misinformed people will just vote a big fat NO
The sentence of death can be carried out on a defendant who has been found guilty of manufacturing, importing or distributing a controlled substance if the act was committed as part of a continuing criminal enterprise – but only if the defendant is (1) the principal administrator, organizer, or leader of the enterprise or is one of several such principal administrators, organizers, or leaders, and (2) the quantity of the controlled substance is 60,000 kilograms or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of marijuana, or 60,000 or more marijuana plants, or the if the enterprise received more than $20 million in gross receipts during any 12-month period of its existence.
Mandatory minimum sentence: When someone is convicted of an offense punishable by a mandatory minimum sentence, the judge must sentence the defendant to the mandatory minimum sentence or to a higher sentence. The judge has no power to sentence the defendant to less time than the mandatory minimum. A prisoner serving an MMS for a federal offense and for most state offenses will not be eligible for parole. Even peaceful marijuana smokers sentenced to “life MMS” must serve a life sentence with no chance of parole.
To not vote “yes” on prop 19 will make absolutely sure that laws like these never get stripped from the books!
[Russ responds: Though it hasn’t been used, America is one of the few countries that carries a death penalty for a marijuana crime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis#Use_of_capital_punishment_against_the_cannabis_trade). That puts us in the company of such bastions of freedom and liberty as Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Malaysia, United Arab Emirates, Thailand, Singapore, and China.
It would probably be found unconstitutional, though, because SCOTUS has ruled that only murder and treason can carry the death penalty.
But the most troubling effect of a “No on 19” vote: Every blowhard anti-cannabis politician ever approached in the future about lowest priority, medical marijuana, decriminalization, or legalization in every other state will be able to say, “Even California thinks that legalization is a bad idea!”]
Anti-legalization dispensary owners are the new equivalent to the pharmaceutical, alcohol and tobacco industry in California… They want things left the way they are now because if marijuana becomes fully legal, they stand to lose a lot of money. They lack the insight, motivation and vision to turn their medical dispensaries into legitimate weed producers when legalization inevitably happens, so they want the medical system preserved. Arguments about Philip Morris ruining weed? They are just as stupid and outrageous as prohibitionist arguments about marijuana needing to remain illegal because of the violence it causes… Everyone involved in the medical pot industry in California who opposes Prop 19 needs to be smacked in the face. Greedy bastards are now spending their lives practicing the type of BS hypocrisy they used to fight.
You greedy bastards have a responsibility to set pressident for the rest of the country.
Fuck you and your millon dollar lined pockets.
Get out and vote Y E S for prop19 or else you are no better then a Prohib and will set back this movement into our grandkids generation.
Heals
Every
Major
Problem
Great points, Russ. Prop 19 isn’t perfect, but it is a step in the right direction. Hopefully, Californians will pass it in November and lead the way on legalization like they have on medical.
Excellent breakdown. Especially the drug testing portion. On a sidenote, is everyone seeing the raging “success” in the drug war in mexico? They’re celebrating with fireworks now.
Truth is 99 % or thereabout of the anti – Marijuana crowd have never tried Cannabis therefore are clueless which realistically makes them ignorant .These same people have been brainwashed by all the propaganda & lies put out by even more of the anti – Marijuana people including those tied to the Pharmacuetical , tobacco & Alcohol Companies . My sister is an example . She’s never tried it and never will . She thinks it makes you jump off of tall buildings & into a drunk driver without the Alcohol .She’s clueless……………
“2) Four adults 21+ = Four people allowed to carry around an ounce on them each.”
What if it was all in one, large bag?
[Russ responds: I wouldn’t test that. I’d think “personal possession” is different than “communal possession”. Funny, under prohibition I counsel people to keep all their weed in one bag, so as not to get a “possession with intent” charge. Under legal weed, I’d have to counsel each person to keep their personal weed in their own bag.]
Thanks for a great article! Prop 19 will save a lot of good people from an ugly penal system.
I’m a bit concerned, however, about your “yes officer” language in your post. Of course, you were using common vernacular and didn’t really mean that people should try to explain themselves to police. Still, this is NORML, and it is important not to suggest to people that it’s ever okay to talk to the police without a lawyer present.
Everyone reading this article: *never* talk to the police to explain yourself–ask to see a lawyer, and remain silent. The author is right that those arguments will save your butt post-prop-19, but they will be made by your lawyer to the judge, not by you to the police.
[Russ responds: Thanks, you understood me perfectly. There are only four things you should say to a police officer:
“Am I free to go or am I being legally detained, and if so, what for?”
“I do not consent to any searches.”
“I would like to speak to my attorney.”
“I choose to invoke my right to remain silent.” (SCOTUS decided this year that you have to speak up if you want to remain silent… being silent isn’t enough. Yes, you have to tell them by talking that you do not wish to talk. The law is weird sometimes.)]
Tread lightly Cali.
Most of the views submitted by pro-pot folks not in support of this proposition should be hard to argue. You live in a state where pot is illegal and you have an opportunity to make it legal by voting on it. I would finally cast my 1st vote on anything. You Cali are where I hope to be oneday. Vote yes and give me a shot at finding out.
I really think one thing that may swing some sceptical voters out there would make it mandatory for another vote on it in 6months. If people just give us a chance to enjoy our “after work drink” “happy hour” we wont let you down.
Me I’m more liberal than most. I would vote to legallize weed if we had to be fingerprinted(I had to already to get a permit to work at my job) and we could only get a certain amount per month. I only need a certain amount anyway I dont want to be high ALL the time. I think some jobs may still need drugtesting but just to make sure you are not high teaching in school, flyin a plane, operating on my open heart.
Stay open for new ideas. Run some polls see if we can get a couple more votes out of this. The days of Reefer Madness are over. Most Americans have tried weed and so many more know someone who has tried weed. Those that tried it once and didnt like it they survived. Kind of like Tequilla or Sambuca some people try it and dont like it should they have a right to make it illegal.
I am writing my Congressman and telling him thanks for the booze and Marlboros but how about weed. It never killed anyone that ought to be worth something.
You are an unholy blight in an unfathomable foulness of feces if you do not vote YES for LEGALIZATION!!!
I really think this all about money. The old timers don’t want to loose there big incomes. They want to keep it the way it is so they can charge us crazy high prices.
I say this, If it does not pass I would like to see the federal government send the Navy Seals Delta Force and Rangers into the hills of Northern California and clean house. Sorry but these people are truly criminals if they don’t want Marijuana leagle.
Long story short…Jack Herer planned on CCHH in 2012, and there’s no reason–pass or fail, for Prop 19–that his vision of full re-legalization (if not the complete repeal of cannabis/hemp prohibition) continue on schedule.
Everyone knows that Jack worked hard on his proposition, and it will remove many of the negatives currently associated with Prop 19.
Vote your conscience in November, but plan to continue the fight in 2012, and get this battle WON once and for all!
In the meantime, Google “Overgrow The World”, or visit the facebook page to lend your voice the the global “grass roots” (literally!) effort to repeal cannabis/hemp prohibition, and free the people by letting the herb speak for itself…everywhere! d;o)
LEGALIZE IT!
Those who think “I’ve got mine” are leaving themselves at risk of losing the gains that have been made.
As well, there are those of us who due to the nature of employment are pee tested on a regular basis, and the law currently or even if prop 19 passes will not due anything to change that. I’ve been tested 13 times since Jan. 2009! A positive test means I’m fired. Put yourselves in THOSE shoes for a minute, and get out and vote!
We need to keep moving forward on this!
[Russ responds: Actually, Prop 19 does change your situation a bit:
This is a big one. You can’t be punished or denied privileges based on pot smoking. The only exception is employers preventing you from smoking pot on the job. Note the “actually impairs job performance” language. This is the loophole through which some attorney is going to drive a big truck delivering us freedom from workplace pee testing for cannabis. Pee test metabolites do not prove workplace impairment.]
You all are retarded.
There may be some people that can get high, while maintaining a perfect GPA, or still be the perfect parent, but that isn’t everyone. Majority of stoners are nothing but stoners. That is why we don’t let them into schools, and that is why we put their kids into foster care.
Legalizing this will only give more stoners the opportunity to get into school, only so they can waste money and drop out. It will let children stay in homes where they must fend for themselves because the parents are too busy getting high.
[Russ responds: 1 in 4 people aged 18-25 use cannabis annually, with 1 in 10 using weekly. 1 in 10 adults use cannabis annually, with 6% of all adults using monthly. These are the federal government’s figures, so adjust upward for the “some stranger on a telephone is asking me if I smoke pot” factor.
So, your “keep ’em out of schools and break up their families” theory seems not to have worked, unless you’re of the belief that 10% of America is “retarded”.
See, the thing is that prohibition forces the successful, professional, responsible cannabis consumer to remain closeted. The tie-dyed, stinky, long-haired burnout stereotype you’re railing against is just the tiny tip of a really large iceberg.
I’ll be waiting with bated breath your explanation as to why we allow these young people and parents to drink all the liquor they choose and how that doesn’t make America “retarded”.]
you know what…as soon as the greedy politicans figure out how to tax it everywhere then they will make it legal…until they can tax it forget it…..shit a country started because we hated being taxed…..is taxing the shit out of every possible thiong they can…..GREEDY BASTARDS
The Proposition 19 will prove the rest of the United States and the world that prohibitionist are wrong.
So what’s the problem?
This is just disgusting! Dispensary owners and growers have “got theirs” and they are fighting tooth and nail to retain the privileges and profits that come with a “protected” market. It’s bullshit.
They are just fighting because they know the necessary price corrections will happen if Prop 19 passes. It’s cowardly, shameful and just plain pathetic. Once again $$$ is everything.
Yeah Baby!
Good stuff, just what the Dr ordered.
This is a feel good movement and I sure pray it passes. If not, there will hopefully be a benefit to the left from the turnout, or possibly reduce the damage. Consider how this voter dynamic plays in ’12 when the economy will still be slowly recovering (in the best case scenario!) and much of the voting opposition has moved on to a better place. Yes or no on 19, the ballot measure will affect a lot of states.
Oregon is poised and hungry, a potential hero in the overall picture. I know little, but I’d bet cash we’ll have 30+ states with some sort of MC law after Nov ’12.
Medical cannnabis acceptance in individual states appears to be the little wedges of compassion that are cracking open the national legalization clamshell. More wedges are coming and being designed now.
The reason is simple, people benefit from the medicine and enjoy a little euphoria, and they feel like they deserve it after working their butt off to pay for a house that they now may never live long enough to pay for.
Cannabis has so many uses we haven’t discovered them all. Hopefully there will be more positive discoveries soon and hemp will get more press.
Common sense doesn’t always prevail, however.
Doug says:
“I say this, If it does not pass I would like to see the federal government send the Navy Seals Delta Force and Rangers into the hills of Northern California and clean house. Sorry but these people are truly criminals if they don’t want Marijuana leagle.”
This is wrong, because you are reasoning from a position of anger. Sure they’re piggish, but the momentum that law enforcement gains in the process is damaging to the whole movement, your movement. They bring movie cameras, ham it up, exaggerate the value, and beat their chests for the conservative media. Screw that.
If CA says no, the movement isn’t just gonna pack up and go home to cry in their beer.
Not hardly.
We reload.
I wish I lived in Ca so I could vote for Prop 19. If I donate $100 to the Ca state government, will they give me a vote? I know they need the money. If Prop 19 passes, Ca. will become a tourist mecca not unlike Amsterdam. One of the charms of California has long been its cannabis, which is the finest the world has to offer. Let law enforcement spend its time on more productive avenues such as DUI enforcement. Cannabis is not a crime.
Share the links to REGISTER TO VOTE.
Arizona, California, Michigan, and South Dakota citizens: You’re voter registration process is linked below (along with some other states).
And while we’re talking, tell people to be on the watch for the “October Surprise”, some trumped-up bad “news” about marijuana that will be intended to persuade voters at the last minute. Register to VOTE and tell your friends to not fall for the “October Surprise!”
(Remove the spaces in the h t t p :// w w w portions of the link and then paste the link into your browser)
ARIZONA citizens can register to vote at h t t p ://w w w .azsos.gov/election/voterregistration.htm
until October 3, 2010.
CALIFORNIA citizens can register to vote at
h t t p s://w w w .sos.ca.gov/nvrc/fedform/ Just fill out the form and mail it in!
COLRADO at h t t p ://w w w .sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/ . There’s a link in the “Voter Information” section.
GEORGIA at h t t p ://w w w .sos.georgia.gov/elections/voter_registration/voter_reg_app.htm until October 4, 2010.
KANSAS at
h t t p s://w w w .kdor.org/voterregistration/Default.aspx until October 16 or 17, 2010.
MAINE citizens have to register in person; you can read about it at h t t p ://w w w .maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/voterguide.html all the way up until election day!
MICHIGAN at
h t t p ://w w w .michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7-127-50050_50420-175878–,00.html until October 1, 2010.
MINNESOTA at h t t p ://w w w .sos.state.mn.us/index.aspx?page=204 until October 10, 2010.
MONTANA citizens can check their registration status and find other information at h t t p s://app.mt.gov/voterinfo/ or get the voter registration form at h t t p ://w w w .co.yellowstone.mt.gov/elections/ (sorry, I couldn’t find a state-wide site!)
NEVADA at h t t p ://nvsos.gov/index.aspx?page=76 until October 12.
NORTH CAROLINA at
h t t p ://w w w .sboe.state.nc.us/content.aspx?id=23 until October 7, 2010.
OREGON citizens can register online at
h t t p ://w w w .sos.state.or.us/elections/votreg/vreg.htm until October 16.
SOUTH DAKOTA citizens can get the voter registration form online at
h t t p ://w w w .sdsos.gov/electionsvoteregistration/registrationvoting.shtm until October 10.
WASHINGTON citizens can register online at
h t t p ://wei.secstate.wa.gov/osos/en/voterinformation/Pages/RegistertoVote.aspx
until October 4, 2010.
Other states: Google your State name and the phrase “voter registration” to find out how to REGISTER TODAY so you can VOTE.
By all means vote YES!
everything I have seen about these is a smokescreen that basically amounts to “the pot dealer lifestyle is about to end” and to that I, as a daily pot smoker of over 10 years, say GOOD RIDDANCE.
[Russ responds: Ding! We have a winnah!]
There are good dealers too, but we all know “that guy” (you know– the one Franco was portraying in Pineapple Express… that’s a very real type and those are the ones who least want to see pot in stores… because then they might actually have to act professional)
[Russ adds: Yeah, it’s not corporations spiking weed they fear, it’s corporations requiring things like job applications, regular working hours, and professional appearance.]
Matt you hit the nail on the head!
I cant understand at all why anyone would want anyone to be locked up for toking, the same thing they are doing how can they be that way? Anyone that lets that happen or like now doesnt want legalized pot well they are not fellow tokers they are here for their own agenda, money, life style or whatever, but they are not here to care about anyone but themselves.
People smoke and chew tobacco and drink alcohol while they are under the influence of prescription drugs all the time in front of children. Those highly addictive and deadly substances are frequently available to children simply for the taking in their own homes. I don’t hear a peep out of prohibitionist “what about the children?” Bible thumpers. But an adult consuming comparatively safe cannabis in private, doing absolutely no harm to another, is cause for his or her life to be legally ruined in violation of God’s will for people to live in freedom with liberty as acknowledged and cited in the Constitution of the United States? The solution to this whole mess is for people to just mind their own damn business!
Hi. I should likely stop saying 50$ tax an ounce was the Proposition 19 under Ammiano. Actually I continue with ~ Ammiano apparently noticed the Oakland California 50$s an ounce kind bud whether State legal or not.. and the same effect was tried in Kansas at a decrim community.. Lawrence Kansas unofficial new grass tax [kb] 50$s/once.
I thought Ammiano had a good and bad philosophy about the quality taxes on [basic, special and luxury] tax brackets. It would be an overage amount common cannabis.
Better would be the new taxes wanted with accord Esq2 and Sir Richard Branson legalizing Decrim n Tax with about 1 dollar (for) 5 grams manna pot. I don’t say {m word} ‘ma rijua na’ ,. it means loco weed to me and others who want legality cannabis plant and buds. It was the confusion with the 1548 Feu LahPax after (yes) Christopher Columbus tried the manna plant on New World settin .. and his men went ‘loco’ so as I see it the “ma rijua na” plant was banned so it would not be nuisance to cannabis legality. Thanks to the article saying cannabis, I may continue cannabis legality.. n Thanks to Russ offering the MTSA was repealed and amended (allowing legality) like the new grass tax if anyone will check Federal Minimum Payment about the rule allowing Prop. 19 and new legality retain legal rites by paying the minimum amount on Federal Legality so we may begin National Legality.. Thanks also Paul Armentano.. good idea on saving a natural thought with proper progress.. Anyway, save the National Legality probable future by seeing the legality will allow Nation Legal_\|/_ retained.. and not begin another so called prohibit upon manna pot.
Legalize Cannabis.. allow it full legality.. Begin Nation Legal_\|/_ and keep it legal. OK _\|/_ / BDav
[Russ responds: Regarding the “don’t call it marijuana” meme, here’s my simple way of phrasing it:
“Marijuana laws prohibit hemp plants and the use of cannabis by tokers.”
The laws are “marijuana laws” (or sometimes, “marihuana laws”) – that’s the word used in statute, so it is not improper to use “marijuana” in that context. I’ll also use “marijuana-friendly” sometimes to refer to those that favor a change in “marijuana laws”.
Hemp is the common name for the plant.
Some of those hemp plants can be cultivated so they produce cannabis (or ganja), both of which are the psychoactive substance produced by hemp’s flowers.]
YES ON PROP 19!
This is the day we’ve all been waiting for. End the status quo once and for all. Let’s do this already. The world awaits.
Your so right , NORML . You cannot smoke Pot near children but can drink yourself drunk next to your kids . Growing up my dad would often drink himself out cold right next to me in the kitchen where i ate my dinner . My Dad’s brothers ( my uncle’s ) would often come over and they along with my Dad had a passion for drinking beer & whiskey & smoking cigarettes ( they all smoked ). They’d get drunk & soon near fists were flying . While Alcohol is by far a deadlier substance than Cannabis it is somehow wrong to smoke weed in front of kids yet it is OK to drink or smoke tobacco in front of kids . I had a pretty rough & abusive childhood so regardless either one of these substances i would NOT do in front of children no matter what but this does not make sense .By the way my Uncles are all dead now of Alcohol or tobacco related illnesses .
Another silly & prime example is when the Law enforcement officials in , Columbia , Missouri shot the two dogs and terrorized the family including children they charged the suspect with child endangerment . While i have much respect for Law enforcement i got to say in this & other similar cases the only one endangering the child or family is the people that are responsible for such senseless & ruthless arrests. Child endangerment for a bong while guns and rifles nearly blow your child’s ear just does not make sense .
I rest my case ……….
off ?
I suggest boycotting those turncoat dispensary owners that have betrayed the movement. They are the worst of the worse, just in it for the money. It is one thing to look out for yourself, but when good people are going to prison over something like cannabis, then it is a great evil.
Hey there, Russ. Please don’t approve this posting, and please take it with a grain of salt. I’m an avid pro-cannabis supporter for many reasons, one being the passing of my sister this January. She died from a highly invasive lung cancer that might have been helped by marijuana. I’m 100% for the reform of marijuana laws and the furthering of research on it. I really appreciate what NORML has done for the movement, but I can’t help but to be disappointed with certain things that pop up every now and then. I feel that the comments made at the end of your article – the “who is to know” comments – shed a negative light on the whole movement. I know that they are stupid laws that are in place for stupid reasons, but I feel that saying things encouraging the breaking of laws (or at least the manipulation of them) gives the movement a bad name – It surely offers the opportunity for conservative writers to take a quote out of context and twist it any way they like. I feel that it gives them ammunition to continue stating that we are just degenerates looking to break laws, or at the very least, the argument of “What’s next? What do they want to legalize next?”
Those are just my two cents and I hope it is taken to heart with all the salt intended. As I said, I love NORML and what it has done for us all. Keep up the good work!
-Tauvy
[Russ responds: That’s a very good perspective, Tauvy. I was writing toward an audience of folks avidly breaking the law for profit, trying to say, “What are you afraid of, can’t you see how legalization – of any amount or plants – puts you in a much better position that you are in now?”]
It is not as easy to get a doctor’s certificate as people imagine. I am sure I have some medical conditions that would allow me to get a certificate, but I have gotten no help in finding same. I do not have health insurance (as many do not in CA) and even though I know tons of folks who have certificates (including Dennis Peron no less and are marijuana advocates from way back. I cannot get any information out of any of these people for a doctor to go to. Can you believe that? I live in SF of all places. These people could give a rat’s ass since they have their certificates. I pass by dispensaries all the time and all these kids are going in and out with their pot (don’t try to tell me they all have medical conditions either – but nothing against them just infuriating). So many of these SF folks are howling about this, but you can bet I’ll be voting for it. Tired of dealing with unreliable bootleggers and poor quality pot. I am 60 years old BTW and have been going through this nonsense for 40 years.
[Russ responds: You’re illustrating what I call (if I may steal from Judge Judy) the “Don’t Pee On My Leg and Tell Me It Is Raining” problem of California medical marijuana (and, increasingly, Colorado and Montana.)
When your average non-420-friendly voter heard of “medical marijuana”, he was skeptical. He thought it sounded like a subterfuge to legalize pot outright. No, we said soothingly, it’s about cancer patients and AIDS patients and pain and nausea and suffering. OK, he thought reluctantly, I’m not sure if I want to legalize pot, but surely I shouldn’t let people suffer if it really helps them.
Next thing he knows, it’s a generation later and his eighteen-year-old wants to go to the “Medical Marijuana Expo” featuring Kottonmouth Kings and Cypress Hill, open pot smoking in a “Prop 215 area”, entrance to which is just a doctor’s recommendation away and, well, what do you know, there’s a doctor in a tent right on sight taking $99 cash for recommendations. (We know he’s a doctor cuz he’s wearing a stethoscope, presumably to take blood pressure readings while “Hits From the Bong” is rumbling its bass through monster subwoofer stacks. Funny how everyone’s blood pressure turns out to be 120 dB over 90 bpm.)
And who wouldn’t take advantage of that? If you smoke pot regularly, you can face tickets, fines, arrest, and possibly jail, or you can pay $99 to Doctor Funkenstein at a tent at a concert and go shop at the more-weed-than-you’ve-ever-seen pot store afterward. You can just tell him you have anxiety and marijuana helps it (if he can hear it over the encore).
Since then, and directly in response to California, the states that have followed in enacting medical cannabis laws, especially in the 2000’s, have enacted far stricter laws. New Jersey just became the first to not allow home growing. Bills in other states eliminate chronic pain and require a patient be terminal to use cannabis. Rarely do they allow possession of much more than two ounces. This is because legislators say (to the faces of NORML activists everywhere) “We don’t want this be like California” and because of that, sick and disabled people not fortunate enough to live in a medical marijuana state are having an increasingly difficult time gaining that right to use their medicine.
None of this is to say I don’t like California’s situation. I’m just telling you how voters see it, especially those outside California. They, too, see the lines of young, healthy-looking, mostly male people at the dispensaries. Yes, there are many conditions that give no outward appearance, and yes, young people can suffer, too, but it’s not coincidence that the largest demographic for recreational cannabis use is aged 18-25 and the dispensaries attract a lot of people aged 18-25.
The “it’s about cancer patients and AIDS patients and pain and nausea and suffering” line now sounds like us peeing on the voter’s leg and telling them it’s raining. That means, politically, we are at a crossroads. In one direction lies legalization of personal use, in another direction, further restrictions on medical marijuana in the states that have it and the few others that will approve it. If California votes “no”, it is ammo to every anti-legalization demagogue to say “See, even California doesn’t support legalizing pot!”]
lately the dea has been in a jack-boots frenzy.
these rogues are not acting within the guidelines set by the prez and justice dept.
these gestapo are justifiably very nervous in the service. many are criminals of the worst kind.
unless this is stopped (somehow), they will continue to abusively escalate the war with many many more decent people getting mauled.
the VILE swat team stuff is totally unacceptable.
magical pushback time.
zummmmmmmmm …..
From Russ:
“[…we are at a crossroads. In one direction lies legalization of personal use, in another direction, further restrictions on medical marijuana in the states that have it and the few others that will approve it. If California votes “no”, it is ammo to every anti-legalization demagogue to say “See, even California doesn’t support legalizing pot!”]”
Do you really see it as crucial as that, Russ?
The crossroads analogy is interesting and I suppose the country is waiting and watching, but I’m not too sure that there is much ammo in a failure, when it is a failure of such a revolutionary law. Especially in light of the fact that the leaders there will continue to lead and immediately work on a new bill to address the voters misgivings. “Yeah, but they’re working on another law already, and it’s supposed to be better..”
I’d like to think that even if it proves to be too early, it is still just a matter of time.
[Russ responds: Somebody needs to be the devil’s advocate, I suppose. Maybe it is just because I make too many graphs of legalization’s support over the past forty years. I see that great rise from 12% in 1971 to 30% by the end of the Seventies. I talk with Keith Stroup and others from the era about how inevitable they all thought it was that pot would be legal any year now.
But after the Reagan downturn, as polls went back down to 16%, from 1989 on it has been nothing but a rise, a steady 1% per year. Not the same steep increase as the Seventies. More people have tried it, more people have legal access to it, more people know the truth about it. Maybe it is inevitable.
Two more years is twenty-four more months of pharmaceutical research and development on standardized cannabinoid drugs with all the medical benefits and none of the high. Two more years of states that have dispensaries restricting them further and the fewer dispensaries holding more money and power to maintain the status quo. Two more years of arrests and tickets and lives affected by prohibition. Two years (particularly if regressive elements succeed in the midterm elections) of politicians beating us all over the head with “tut tut silly potheads; even California won’t legalize!”
And in 2012, it will be the mother of all obnoxious spectacle elections, with Citizens United v. FEC allowing corporations unfettered access to the airwaves and a whole bunch of upset voters on both sides of the aisle. Maybe we get Gary Johnson winning the GOP nom and his stance on ending prohibition surviving the primary process and maybe legalization becomes a huge swing issue…
…but when it comes to marijuana policy, I rarely lose money betting pessimistically.]
Civil Disobedience.
What if 20,000 people showed up on the courthouse steps of some tough on weed state and said here I am arrest me on possession charges? What if that moved another 20,000 people to act? What if that moved another 20,000 people to act?
If 52% of the population in Cali votes to keep marijuana illegal would they be willing to arrest 48% of the population. If they vote to legalize we would not force them to try it. They can walk right be it like they do to cigarettes, vodka, rum, whiskey,wine, champagne, and gin.
This law goes back at least till 1970 if you smoked weed or your kid smoked weed you are willing to vote on someones kid or someone you know going to jail for something you did. If that many people can vote on sending someone to jail for something they did I think this country is in trouble.
Weed has been around a long time this law has not. If people used this weed for medicinal purposes even 1000 years ago who is this country founded in 1776 to say we are all created equal. I should be able to say what you can enjoy in the privacy of your home.
All this sounds great but in OKLAHOMA we will never see this day, not in our lifetime anyhow. Not even Medical Marijuana in this state. Oklahoma is 60 yrs behind all other states. Know anyone with a job opening in Cali? Will move in the morning.
ooo and I’m law abiding taxpayer with a perfect driving record with ZERO felony’s. But I’m a criminal because i have smoked marijuana before, so i guess i’m really not law abiding as I thought. I’m not going to burn in Hell am I? lol
Gosh if I woke up one morning and found myself in bed with Calvina Fay I’d have to wonder how the fuck that happened. But that’s the position of the people who oppose Prop 19 and Calvina and her friends spend the rest of the day laughing about making you their bitch.
Thanks for the response Russ, Re: section 11304 (c). That does encourage me, although I would not want to take the chance and be the first to challenge the existing workplace drug testing. BUT, if it does help to change methodology to determine actual intoxication while at work I’d be overjoyed. On that subject, I posted a link below as an example of how South Australia handles roadside sobriety testing for THC and other drugs via a saliva test that effectively determines actual THC content determining use in the previous few hours instead of the last two or three weeks as it is now.
http://www.dtei.sa.gov.au/roadsafety/Safer_behaviours/Drug_driving/drug_driving_faqs
I want to see what the Feds do if and when Prop 19 passes.
I am all for the personal use of cannibus. i support the legalazation and say that people should be allowed to have the freedom to do something if they wish, so long as it is within some reason, however it greatly bothers me that this was said:
[If you have a 10?x10? garden, who’s to know? Is the electric bill that much higher? Does the garden smell more (probably not at all if you build a good grow room)? Plus don’t forget that you’re allowed to have more than one ounce, namely, any amount that you grow within your 5?x5? garden, at the location of the garden. I think by the time law enforcement came back with a warrant to investigate how big my garden is, three-fourths of it would be cut down and I would suddenly have my 5?x5? garden and my hanging plants from the last 5?x5? area I harvested.
Suppose there is four pounds of marijuana at my house. Why, officer, that’s the results from my last legal 5?x5? personal garden harvest. What, you don’t see any 5?x5? growing space? Well, I used to grow, but I took down my garden and sold my equipment after my last harvest. Why, yes, they were some pretty big plants. No, I didn’t take any pictures, because what I was doing was perfectly legal. (Prop 19 also has a nice affirmative defense to claim the marijuana in your home was for your personal use. These blogs never seem to notice that.)]
This comment makes me feel as though you are saying that we should allow people to smoke cannibus with some limits, but they can just ‘bend the laws’ and do whatever they want.
In my opinion we should legalize cannibus, then lay VERY low, and give it some time to allow people to see that if we get our way we can keep it safe and legal.
I would hate for this to turn out like Gay marrige laws, where it was legal before being imediatly overturned, and now millions of innocent people are being denied their rights because some religious groups think that they have the right to decide what marrage is.
All i’m saying is that we have a good thing going, and i would rather play it safe and be allowed to have my rights than get them and loose them imediatly. We should all play it safe.
even if we loose the vote we still have our supporters and we really haven’t lost too much, and our supporters will only grow in numbers. all we need to do is teach people about cannibus, and edjucate them, because right now the argument against legalization is backed by ignorance. We just need to stay strong!
-Peace! JD
The True Enemy of Emerald Triangle family growers showed it’s face last summer when they drove down wholesale prices so much indoor growing became a non-profitable enterprise for the true “family” growers (sorry med users-the dispensaries didn’t pass on the savings to you). If pots not legalized The True Enemy will continue to drive down wholesale prices until NOBODY can make a living growing indoors or outdoors- not only NO profit but an actual LOSS. After a few years this patient True Enemy will have the entire market and be able to charge whatever he wants. The name of The True Enemy: The Mexican Cartel. If you don’t believe it, they have you exactly where they want you – Educate Yourself – Please! If we legalize bud we can work together on marketing the Triangle as the world’s destination for best there is. If we don’t -hope your ready for a role reversal-we’ll be the ones working the fields 12 hours a day for nothing.
Good reading, but confused by “pre-employment drug testing programs become harder for businesses to maintain for cannabis.” Why is it harder? Why should it be any different? I used to be a smoker, so the biggest improvement in my life now would be indirect by the probable cultivation of hemp for clothing and paper. Save the trees!
Russ–not meaning to “nit pick”, but RE: #50, BP (blood pressure) is measured in mmHG (millimeters of mercury).
I’m just asking all of the Californians to please vote yes for prop-19. California is the future for the rest of us Americans who responsibly and safely use cannabis. Everyone here knows the ups and downs of cannabis so I don’t need to say anything else but vote yes.
I wish the authors of prop 19 would have considered the ramifications of NOT making changes to what constitutes “driving under the influence.”
Without changes to DMV policy, ANY level of cannabis in an individual’s body is enough to be considered driving under the influence. This seems like a very scary loophole that will attract the attention of rogue cops who still want to terrorize “dope” smokers.
Cannabis use does not automatically equal impaired driving. If prop 19 doesn’t address this it needs to be fixed ASAP.
[Paul Armentano responds: The detection of ‘any’ level of cannabis or metabolites is NOT considered per se DUI drugs in California. This is the case in some states, and at one point such a measure was proposed in California, but that bill was killed in committee. I actually testified against it.]
who’s to say and gives them the right to tell me on how and what will help with my pain and health. frre your mind and let it be
A person is consider an adult in the US at the age of 18 for about anything except alcohol so why not make the age limit 18 like smoking tobacco
There are several parts of this proposed initiative I have problems with.
I really don’t like that ” a local government may adopt ordinances, regulations, or other acts having the force of law to control, license, regulate, permit or otherwise authorize” cannabis and have the right to “appropriate general, special or excise, transfer or transaction taxes” on sales and commercial cultivation.
1. Local governments may set any fee for someone to cultivate commercial cannabis. Let’s say they set a fee of $1,000,000 a year for you to cultivate in their area. While a great source of income for that local government, mostly only large corporations could afford that fee and could easily make it impossible for small or even medium size companies to even start a business cultivating marijuana.
2. A place that would be allowed to sell up to an ounce of marijuana to anyone over 21 would have to wait until their local government passed local laws that would allow any sales. Local governments are not required to permit any sales. A very large part of California does not now allow medical marijuana dispensaries. I just don’t see most of these “dry” medical marijuana areas allowing sales of cannabis for recreational use. I keep hearing these areas will allow recreational sales due to the fees/taxes it will generate. I see no proof that most conservative parts of California will pass these fees/taxes other than wishful thinking. Most conservatives are against both legalizing marijuana and taxes in general. Some say local governments now allow legalized gambling in their county so they would allow sales. Major difference is the gambling is in one complex while sales of cannabis would be take away and brought into their communities, maybe even next door. So buyers of an ounce of cannabis could end up traveling for hours for only one ounce at a time. What a waste of gas and someone’s time. I see brought up that people who live in more remote area of California have to now go to the bigger cities for more fine food or entertainment choices. Well at least they have a chance to get some food or entertainment in their rural areas. Not going to be any choice for many to legally buy up to an ounce of cannabis in their area. So what most likely will happen in these areas is that people will continue to buy and sell cannabis illegally. People will continued to be arrested and sent to jails/prisons for marijuana offences.
I also have serious problems with the 25 sq ft cultivation area limit per household.
Just way to small for many especially if more than one adult lives there and wants to grow or reap the benefits of that harvest. Your mothers and clones have to be in that same 25 sq ft area.
Not to mention that 5,000,000 Californian households would have to first get permission from their landowner to cultivate 25 sq ft. And if they are not allowed to grow at their own home, they couldn’t even ask a friend to grow for them since most likely that person would already be maxed out in their 25 sq ft area.
This initiative makes a new marijuana crime. If a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old, he or she could go to county jail for six months.
This initiative would free no one previously convicted of marijuana offences that would no longer be illegal under this initiative nor will they receive a pardon.
The legal age is 21 to be covered by this initiative. Why are adults age 18-20 not included?
The age to legally buy alcohol is now 21 due to drunk drivers and if any US state did not raise their legal drinking age to 21, it would be subjected to a ten percent decrease in it’s annual federal highway apportionment. I know of no studies that show people 18-20 who consume marijuana are more dangerous drivers than those 18-20 who do not consume marijuana.
This initiative would allow the growing and processing of Hemp. But for some unknown reason, Hemp would only be allowed to be grown and processed if the local government allows and with any regulations and fees they write. Is there any logical reason to leave Hemp growing to local authorities?
This initiative states: “Regulate cannabis like we do alcohol”. Then the initiative says “Allow adults to possess and consume small amounts of cannabis.” Seems to me to be a contradiction.
There are no laws that restrict the amount of alcohol that you are allow to possess.
There is no age limit for handling alcohol in retail stores as long as a manager who is 21 or older is supervising. You only have to be 18 to serve alcohol in a restaurant. But this initiative states “all persons present in, employed by, or in any way involved in the operation of any such licensed premise are 21 or older.”
This initiative would not allow marijuana smoking in any “space” where minors are present. What is the California legal definition of a “space” ?
There are no similar restrictions that ban parents from smoking tobacco in the presence of their own children. This could mean that parents could be legally unable to smoke marijuana since this initiative also bans marijuana smoking in public or in a car.
[Editor’s note: You sure put a lot of time and effort into coming up with not-very-convincing rationalizations in opposing the most important cannabis legalization effort in your lifetime.
Basically your understanding of the existing laws, proposed law changes and politics are way off.
1.) Your concerned with local govts setting regulatory and licensing fees? Really?!? So you’re also opposed to restaurant, bar, auto dealer, gun retailers, fish processing plants, dairy producers, gas stations, nuclear power plants, etc….as they all currently pay fees and license costs, some of them more than what cannabis outlets will pay.
Worrying about the size of the fees and licensing cost as an excuse to oppose ending cannabis prohibition in most of CA is allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good, or worse.
2.) So what if some counties in CA don’t initially or ever accept cannabis sales? There are hundreds of so-called ‘dry counties’ all over the US, including CA. When it comes to retail sales of problematic adult commerce, local mores and values dictate what commerce happens and what doesn’t. If one does not like the situation they’re free to move elsewhere that is more cannabis-friendly (aka…sane) or help to change the local politics by electing pro-cannabis law reform office holders.
3.) 25 X 25 is too small for personal cultivation?! Not unless you’re selling cannabis or having to supply Cypress Hill and Willie Nelson. The proposed cultivation space is more than enough for a consumer who may consume numerous pounds of cannabis annually…more than the average consumer and then some.
4.) Prop 19 does not create a new crime for a 21-year-old handing a 20-year-old a joint…that already is a crime and has been for over 40 years in CA.
5.) Proposed cannabis law legislation and initiatives that have historically included prisoner amnesty measures have failed spectacularly and are truly poison pills politically to passing successful cannabis law reforms.
It makes no sense to claim to care about the current prisoners in jail for cannabis while at the same time opposing a law reform that will stop populating the prisons with cannabis offenders.
Perfect is the enemy of the good….remember?
6.) Opposing ending cannabis prohibition for adults over 21 in the name of teens accessing legal cannabis is politically foolish and a non-starter for the public, politicians and NORML. Cannabis use by state and federal laws whom are deemed ‘minors’ for the purposes of consuming recreational drugs (like alcohol, cannabis, etc…) are sensible.
Supporting the arrest, prosecution, incarceration of over 50,000 cannabis offenders in CA annually by not working for Prop 19 because 18-20 year olds will not be able to buy cannabis–just like they can’t with alcohol–makes you sound silly and not to be taken seriously.
7.) For hemp to be grown legally under Prop 19 and for it to cross state lines in commerce, it will need to be approved by a state regulatory agency, otherwise it will likely run afoul of federal anti-cannabis laws.
8.) Let’s keep wasting tax dollars in CA, and around the country, because you’re concerned that under the proposed laws you believe it inconsistent that the proposed law allows adults to possess and use cannabis, but 18-20 year olds can’t be legally employed to sell it?
What are you, a 17-year-old?
C’mon, your excuses to keep supporting cannabis prohibition laws in CA absent pro kids-n-buds provisions are laughable here.
9.) Space is defined as….space. Unfortunately, you don’t seem to be aware that in a number of states and cities in the US, notably in CA, it is already a crime to be in an enclosed space exposing a child to smoked tobacco products (ie, a car). Not surprisingly, and to be consistent, when cannabis is legal, parents who expose their children to cannabis smoke in a space where the police and prosecutors can make a case to a jury of ‘child endangerment’ may have occurred will be treated the same as tobacco consumers.
However, unlike today where the cannabis consuming parent is busted for their cannabis use and the child taken away by Child Protection Services, the parent who exposes their child to tobacco is only fined. Why shouldn’t cannabis consuming parents be treated equally with tobacco consuming parents?
If you consume cannabis, and you appreciate personal freedom and autonomy, you have to support Prop 19 passing in California this fall and not let the perfect be the enemy of the good!!
Good is good. Perfect is inhuman, most especially in politics.]
This cat is so out of the bag – it’s never going back in.
Once it’s legal, anyone who wants to grow it will grow it. And cash strapped municipalities are not going to waste scarce resources hassling growers.
Legalization will make it like growing grapes.
Except that some people are good at growing things, others aren’t and many people don’t have garden space. Still confused here. Would it be legal to go commercial and grow acres and acres of the stuff? Or is that restricted to medical use only?
[Paul Armentano responds: Prop. 19 does not alter the existing medical laws. Non-medical, personal cultivation is legal under Prop. 19, but limited to specific quantities. Commercial cultivation will be subject to licensing and local regulation. Personal possession or cultivation will not be subject to local regulation.]
I totally agree. How do those who support some new bill that is working its way in the legislature assume that one will pass?
Citizens who don’t smoke may go for this one and not for that one.
Why wait 2 more years to find out, when we can lose our virginity now? aren’t we old enough?
Russ…why do you need this to pass so badly. you don’t even live here.
I am 61 years old. I have waited a long time for this. Let’s not quibble and drop the ball. It’s time to legalize now. Have also worked in the law for 35 years and this prop is a good deal from my perspective.
The only way people who smoke could possibly be against legalization are people who deal. The only motivation they can possibly have against it would be they would have to find real jobs.
Here is a letter printed today by me, in the media:
http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/99918789_The_Record__Letters__Aug__4__2010.html
Dolcevespa, Why Russ wants this passed so badly?
Speaking for myself, I live even further away in NJ. But I see this legalization as a first step. I have made 14 trips to Amsterdam in the past 6 years. Not only to go there most of the time on the way to business or family events or visit. So I count the arrival and departures as separate trips, often a one day affair. But since first discovering their coffeeshops, I can’t stop going back.
I get to feel like a normal person, not doing something ‘wrong’ and unlawful. I get to meet people who feel the same way or live there and enjoy these places regularly or I have met many Americans or others who have moved there, for the enjoyment that the legality brings to life there. (technically not legal but in reality what they do have is legal enough).
THere is a special vibe in Amsterdam that is either because of the legality or is enhanced by it.
I would like to see the rest of the world have this vibe. Most certainly the country and state where I live.
I would like to visit California coffeeshops or whatever they will be called. Without breaking any laws.
And I hope that, as the neighboring states will likely see economic hard as so many will drive by as they do in Belgium and Germany, other US states will take a different approach from these countries, which I think they will, as we are all Americans, whereas they are not All Euros, they are diff nationalities.
So we have a very good chance of the legalization spreading. So I won’t have to make the trips to Amsterdam but my country benefits from my vacation spending, I don’t have to be up all night on a plane, and so forth.
ANd hopefully a progressive state like Rhode Island appears as our white horse in the East, and so perhaps they can attain legality soon before I get too old, and I can drive there for many a nice weekend fun.
Those who are in favour of this Prop 19 and/or are voting YES, perhaps it would be useful to pick one thing that you dislike about this. It may be important when you are debating someone, to not appear as naive and overzealous, which loses credibility. As there are many voters I would think who are still undecided.
The main thing I don’t like is the potential for a local municipality in not allowing legal dispensaries for all.
The potential price of one million for a license does not put me off that much.
What did I think, it would not be a big business concept at all?
PLEASE, PLEASE VOTE YES ON PROP 19! The “better bill” is no certainty, and anything is better than the oppressive system we have right now. The reasoning behind the social stigmatization of pot smokers is not grounded in the “dangers” of the drug; it is grounded in marijuana’s illegality. The reasoning of the general public is, “Well, weed is illegal! It must be bad!” Well, I for one am tired of this nonsense. LEGALIZE IT THIS TIME AROUND!
I suppose something is better than nothing. Of course I am voting yes!
um. we all know how strict the police are in enforcing and prosecuting anyone that gives alcohol to people 18-20. i am NOT voting for this. I want DECRIMINALIZATION but this is NOT THE RIGHT LAW.
[Editor’s note: Ummmm…California already decriminalized cannabis possession in the 1970s…you’re not correctly understanding the language of Prop 19 that does not decriminalize, it actually legalizes cannabis.
If you don’t support Prop 19, you’re effectively supporting 80,000 annual cannabis possession arrests in CA.
You might want to re-read Prop 19!]
Jami, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Vote yes for this. It’s not a perfect law, but a good one.
It won’t help me because of my job, and a positive test, I am pee tested now almost once a month, and will be still, even if Prop 19 is passed. For people like me it’s a step in the right direction, even if it takes years for a reasonable policy at the Federal level. Will you do nothing because it’s not perfect? Do you think the status quo is not worth changing?
God! it really hurts me to think that we who have suffered under this oppression can’t get together enough to take this step to stop the insanity.
Brother, we have to continue to stay together. Prop 215 was voted in 14 years ago, it was the first step to get us here, would you have voted against that too?
As a cannabis rights activist, I’ve been having a very difficult time debating this proposition with others because despite all the analysis, I still find the verbiage ambiguous in places.
I understand furnishing cannabis to those 18-20 years of age will be punishable by $1000 fine and 6 months incarceration, but can anyone tell me what happens to the possessors of an ounce or less of cannabis in that age group?
I sure hope Prop 19 passes.
Question,
If it does pass is there a way I can get the local government in my town to allow co-op sales or a farmers market type event to help the little growers I know and also generate tax income for my town? Thanks and good luck.
there is one major flaw to one of the primary arguments against legalization and that is that they say its a gate way drug which is technicly wrong. allow me to explain the average person who smokes recreationaly has to get it illegaly right well people who barter in illegal substances already are most likely going to dabble in other illegal drugs as well why not they already got a method to distribute illegaly and this increases there customer base as well as giving them higher profit margine with the more hard core drugs so let me aask you your getting a illegal substance already, your using illegaly, how long before you say why not it wouldent change your routine so ya ill try cocaine or exstasy or whatever. but here is where prop 19 comes in what if from the get go it was legal you no longer have to deal with the dealers your not in the enviroment to try other drugs and you dont have to hide like you would if you did illegal drugs so now you take out that whole factor crime drops probaly very significantly i mean imagine how big the whole illegal market is how many plants did they find just last year? also the law makers should be jumping for joy right now becouse if this passes kiss our debt goodby on one story i read it had the annual pot revnue at 14 billion thats probaly not even close to how much it will be once more of the illegal sellers get pushed out by legaliztion
This proposition is crap. 1 good reason vs. 20 bad makes this a NO vote all the way. Everyone thinks it will be 1 big party, you’re wrong…First thing the city will do is “TAX” your grow space. Like what Rancho Cordova is trying to do. Yea, check it out. No Bullshit. $600.00 per square foot indoor, up to 25 square feet. $900.00 per square foot anything over that. If you think this won’t happen, you’re stupid. Then instead of growing your own, you’ll be buying some shitty, overpriced chemical weed from Richard Lee and Friends. At $400.00 per ounce. Oh, I’m full of shit ? His Partner said he can Mass Produce for $175.00 an ounce. Do you think you will get it at COST ? Uh, no. So, if you want to be a COMPLETE DUMBASS, Vote for this Flawed, Fucked Up Proposition. Do a little homework before you Vote…2012 is the year for Complete Legalization Without any Strings attached !!!!!!!
[Editor’s note: It is regrettable that you so strongly favor cannabis consumers in California still being arrested en mass for cannabis ‘crimes’ and can be counted on the DEA/ONDCP/law enforcement community’s team of public opponents to the legalization initiative Prop 19. Very regrettable to an extreme!]
I am old,…and very sick. I realize that my “future” is gonna be quite limited. I smoke to relieve my pain. Anybody that doesn’t like it can KMA. I remember a strange event that happened a few years back. I was watching Channel 5, a San Francisco tv station. The news was on at 11 p.m. A man appearede in a white lab coat. He said he was part of a research project. He indicated that they had found an “ELEMENT” in marijuana that “stopped breast cancer, in its tracks”. That is a verbatim quote. ( My memory still works exceptionally well). The very next sentence was. “the benefit CANNOT be derived from SMOKING pot”. It would have to be administered in pill form. Gee, who makes “pills”.? Could he be referring to the pharmaceutical companies ? Us Americans are mere worker ants, funneling the fruits of our labors to the big corps, i.e. pharmaceuticals, big oil, banking, insurance companies, etc.etc. OOOPS, let’s not forget BIG GOVERNMENT. Our country has been LOOTED, by all the above, without firing a shot. The biggest robbery in human history. You steal a pack of gum = 1 year in county. Steal a trillion $$ and you get a BONUS ! Yet the Fed wants me and others to suck it up, suffer in silence, and give them what little we have left. @#(* them !
I fear that passing Prop 19 will be, at best, a short victory. If the GOP wins in 2012, the new “conservative” president will undoubtably want to send CA a message: We control Marijuana laws- not you.
Increased federal arrests and seizures will result, and the whole damn thing goes back to the stone age.
[Editor’s note: There is no doubt that who controls the federal branches of government can help dictate how aggressive the fed’s reaction will be to states changing their cannabis laws. However, the states have great autonomy in America’s federal system and there is not that much the feds can do to overturn the popular will of a state’s voters and/or legislators when they’re prescribing greater rights and freedom to their citizens (as compared to retarding rights under ‘Jim Crow’ laws in the South, where the feds stepped in to enforce the US Constitution).
When a legalization initiative passes in CA, there is a possibility that even the Obama administration may try to seek an judicial injunction against the implementation of Prop. 19. However, that is absolutely no reason not to vote in favor of this important and historic legalization initiative. If anything, the louder the people’s voice in CA in favor of legalization the better the chance the feds will be deterred from interfering with the will of the voters–from the most important state in the union–and may see the vote as a bellwether portending a national trend in favor of legalization that politicians need to heed.]
the bigest problem with prop 19 is the law is only for money.it dose not adress how reduction in state and local budgets will create savings. but it dose say it is likely to redirect their resources. no redution…
I think Its a big SLAP IN THE FACE BY THE BEER COMPANY TO PAY MONEY TO FIGHT PROP 19 I DONT WANT A BEER COMPANY TO PUT A PRICE ON ANY THING THAT IS LESS HARMFUL THEN BEER BEER IS WAY MORE HARMFUL AND, THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEM SELFS TRYING TO FIGHT PROP 19 THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS ON TAKING ON SOMETHING LESS HARMFUL IM FROM GEORGIA AND PLAN ON MOVEING ONCE PROP 19 PASSES I WILL BE PART OF HISTORY HURRY NOV 2 VOTE YESS TO MAKE IT LEGALLIZE
“# Paul Says:
July 19th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
This is simply propaganda by the conservatives. Don’t worry, all of the people who were going to vote for it are still going to vote for it and those that weren’t wont. This is a stupid attempt to muddy the waters. Thankfully this reeks of desperation and this should e seen as a good sign for us. ;)” I am a conservative, a real conservative and I believe it is no more my business what you do in your own home and to your own body then it is any of your business what church I go too. Do not group me into that stereo type. I am a Ron Pauler!
Prop. 215 did something that not a single voter realize. It made marijuana legal for medical use, and took control of it from state hands to federal hands. It made marijuana a controled substance. Just like oxyi-contin, cocaine, morphine. These drugs have a potienial for abuse, just like marijuana. That is why the federal drug enforcement officers can, even if prop 19 passes, enforce federal laws. Eric Holder who is U.S. Attorney General, has promised a vigorous enforcement of federal drug laws if 19 passes. So just a word of warning, I wouldn’t get to involved until the federal government has its day in court with the appeals. See I think that calif. is putting the cart before the horse so to speak. They should fight the DEA in a court room first and then put it on the ballet for popular vote. Untill the DEA is out of the picture you will still face federal charges if you engage in prop.19 behaviors. Not to be a stick in the mud, just presenting facts.
Thanks buddy. Awesome submissions you got here. Have some extra websites to link to which have more stuff like this?