Recently on the NORML blog and in NORML’s weekly media release we informed you of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administrations’ intentions to reclassify plant-derived THC from a schedule I to schedule III controlled substance under the federal Controlled Substances Act.
Today on the website Alternet.org I write about the forces motivating this proposed change and what it means (and what doesn’t mean) for the medical cannabis consumer. I also analyze who stands to gain (and who stands to lose) from reclassification.
You can read an excerpt of my story, “If the Feds Get Their Way, Big Pharma Could Sell Pot — But Your Dime Bag Would Still Send You to Jail,” below. Full text of the story appears here. Please feel free to share and comment.
If the Feds Get Their Way, Big Pharma Could Sell Pot — But Your Dime Bag Would Still Send You to Jail
via Alternet.org
“[M]arijuana has no scientifically proven medical value.” So stated the United States Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) on page six of a July 2010 agency white paper, entitled ‘DEA Position on Marijuana.’
Yet only four months after the agency committed its ‘no medical pot’ stance to print, it announced its intent to allow for the regulation and marketing of pharmaceutical products containing plant-derived THC – the primary psychoactive ingredient in cannabis.
But don’t for a second believe that the DEA has experienced a sudden change of heart regarding patients’ use of the marijuana plant – use that is now legal under state law in fifteen states and the District of Columbia (although recently approved laws in Arizona, New Jersey, and Washington, DC still await implementation). Despite growing public support for medical marijuana legalization, America’s top anti-drug agency remains resolute that these hundreds of thousands of medi-pot patients are no more than common criminals, and that their herbal remedy of choice is nothing more than the ‘Devil’s weed.’
It’s not pressure from the public that’s motivating the agency to consider rescheduling an organic cannabinoid for the first time since the creation of the U.S. Controlled Substances Act of 1970. (Under this act, all prescription drugs are classified as schedule II, III, IV, or IV controlled substances, while all illicit substances are categorized as schedule I drugs.) And it’s not the recent publication of a series of FDA-approved ‘gold standard’ clinical trials affirming the plant’s safety and efficacy that’s prompting the agency into action. (The DEA has so far refused to acknowledge that these studies even exist.) Rather, the agency’s sudden call for regulatory change is inspired by far more politically influential forces. The DEA is responding to the demands of Big Pharma.
I, just legalize pot and get it done with. enough games it’s all a bunch of b.s. any how. LEGALIZE MARIJUANA.
We ready to actually put pressure on our government yet?
The millions of medical users who cannot integrate themselves with society, who are treated like 1/2 a citizen, are waiting.
Most people I know do not smoke for recreation, even though they’ll say they’ll smoke “to relieve anxiety, to relax, to forget about their crappy jobs for a few hours…”.
Enough is enough. I urge those who post here to ramp up their activism. Civil disobedience is the only way; ask Rosa Parks.
America is owned and run by the large corporations and not for and by the people.
Our voting system is rigged.
Our taxes keep going up while services are going down, our jobs are being insourced and outsourced and our housing values keep declining.
Our government is corrupt to the core.
Marijuana should have been legalized a long time ago but until the USA can find a way to cut in BIG PHARMA it ain’t gonna happen.
America is not a free country, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness along with freedom is an illusion.
We are the biggest terrorists in the world and the majority of sheeple keep slumbering away in the matrix while our skies are loaded down with chemtrails, our TVs are sending out god knows what kind of mind “conditioning” signals, cell towers, cell phones, but hey don’t worry this is all part of the NWO and it’s leaching out world wide.
Read the WV bill sounds good. Thank you NORML.
No matter how you slice or dice it, We are all in this together.
If you have a Higher Power, Destiny Awaits.
Shall We Gather By The River
The two main reasons marijuana is against the law are 1. it works. 2. You can grow it for free. If it could only be grown in a lab it would be in everything from ice cream to toothpaste.
I told you that the Government is going to do what ever they want! Big Pharma has deep pockets. “We The People” is getting a little old to hear. Some of us on here want some sort of uprising like Egypt or Libya… Really? The ones who are screaming for a revolution are probably the individuals who forget to vote on Prop. 19 due to a heavy smoke session and realized it when it was too late. If this country is sooooo bad and you just can’t take it anymore, move to Egypt! I hear they’re changing things around over there. I also hear that Portugal is nice as well!
fuc ol’ people,its all about the $$$$$,and its a real SHAME
3141 Manny – Genesis – San Diego Colony:
Manny – short answer to both questions – I don’t know. But I do know that if we look at what is happening with the Republican governors and the union workers; what’s happening in Libya and what happened in Egypt, it wouldn’t take a stretch of the imagination to implement change for cannabis laws in a similar way and that there’s a good chance of it happening real soon.
I think we are at a tipping point here – picture a car poised on a cliff balancing half way over they cliff. just needs a little push to go over. What that push will be, I dunno, maybe another shot dog…………..
Think. Process. Act. Any critical thinking, fully processing individual can acknowledge that this is about money and power. Take the ideology away and it’s always about money and power. Ideology is about keeping all people occupied with thoughts and words instead of taking the necessary steps/actions to replace those, people or entities, who are destroying that which it had swore to uphold. Pesky atheists.
Ultimately it’s not about what is believed. You could possess all the facts in the world and it wouldn’t matter to the elitists. “Whoever has the gold makes the rules.” That’s all those in power have ever known. All the United Nation of Socialist Corporatocracy cares about is controlling everything. EVERYTHING!
What we, the people, need to understand is that it’s us that makes the mega-corporation(s) succeed to the point that they’re viewed as larger than life. It’s the average, normal, hard working person that gives life to the ungrateful/controlling. From the blood, sweat and tears that we put into production, to the consumer aspect. Without us they have nothing! Without them we have our freedom! We say what goes, not them. The same corporations, as ruled by the Supreme Court, to have a larger voice than that of a living, breathing in the flesh individual. See what kind of power we’ve given them? We gave it to them! They have no respect for the living populace that made/makes their mega-corporation(s). We’re just cogs that make the machine move and when we’ve exhausted our time then we’re replaced. I say it’s time we replaced them. If we don’t buy what they want us to buy and save for the future then slowly but surely we will gain some control back. Purchase what you need but if you don’t need it don’t buy it.
Enough is enough. From the government bailouts to the special treatment of certain corporations the people have had it and its over. Why do you think the government and the mega-corporations scratch each others backs? Because the population willfully gave it’s power away. It’s time to get it back. Either you change your ways or you will reap what you sow. The future is now. The time is now.
Every single aspect of the government is trying to prove that it’s relevancy in today’s age is needed/warranted. With the bloated amounts of finance and control given to agencies all it proves is that, as usual, the government and the mega-corporations overstep their bounds, care nothing for the population and that nothing exists to control them. We the people can and should voice our frustrations and take the power, which was endowed to us by our god/creator and “fought and paid for” by our forefathers in blood, back from those who would only see the destruction of it’s memory manifested.
Brethren – here’s a little niity griity for CDXX Communion today.
By rescheduling a “natural whole plant extract” to schedule III – also – allows [or should allow] for research – where schedule I does not. When government’s own research – and – “all other research” is presented – “the overwhelming evidence” will show that collaborative government has enacted an “unjust law in violation of our Constitution, civil and individual rights of We the People.
Research and personal testament will prove, by a preponderance of evidence, what benefits and efficacy cannabis provides – [but – at the same time] – it will expose, by a preponderance of evidence, what benefits and efficacy derived from Sacrament has been denied, manipulated, and has profited by its illegality [prohibition]. How many lives could have been saved – except for its prohibition – and – man’s inhumanity towards man?
Prohibitionists [the remaining hard line prohibitionists – their front line of defense] will “Defend to the end!” The Civil War comes to mind. They will defend illegality and the revenue [profit] it generates. It will expose the “Manipulation of Government” by those who would profit most from its prohibition, at the expense of public health and religious freedom. This is definitely not going to look good on a resume’.
What I want to know is…where is the petition? Where is the rally? This is unacceptable. God forbid that “The PEOPLE” be allowed to grow and administer their own pharmaceuticals. Screw this! If any of you know of direct action against the next step, please reply.
Fire a teacher, build a prison. America’s new motto.
Nobody has even bothered to try and tackle this MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION:
Why is Big Pharma ALLOWED to mark up the prices of their drugs to the tune of 550,000%??
Not 5%, not 55%, not 550%, not 5,500%, not 55,000% but 550 THOUSAND PERCENT!!!!!!
Think about that for a minute: You walk into a McDonalds and your quarter pounder which used to cost $3.49 now costs $19,195.00. Would you pay that much for a burger? OF COURSE NOT!!!!
But you willingly pay this for Big Pharma drugs!!! And you don’t even bitch about it. You say reform health care, I say health care should be and CAN BE ABSOLUTELY FREE!!!
America, Big Pharma knows only 29% of you have a college degree. They play their hand accordingly.
look what we need is a person who sees nothing wrong with weed and have him run for head of dea and then he can make the changes from the inside thats the only way
The Reformation.
Genesis I:29,30,31
O.K.! here it is in a nut-shell. Take it to the bank. It’s the Genesist Faiths fiat. “Let it be done.” Genesists proclaim an arbitrary order.
“Your Compelling Justification, Prior Competing Governmental Interests, and Supremacy Clause is unconstitutional, and voidable. Genesists have absolutely no intentions, whatsoever, of obeying this unjust law.
There are 3141 counties [Genesist Colonies] in the U.S.
The math becomes a little more exciting when you multiply 3141 by the number of each individual in each county [Colony] who believe in God and God’s Sacrament.
On 4-20 @ 4:20 – you the prohibs – will come to understand that we are completely and thoroughly void of any compassion for you, or any tolerance for your law. This is our fiat – “Let it be done.”
The Federal government will never legalize cannabis until it has absolute control from patents to biological controls over cannabis perfected. The Dept of Health and Human services holds US Patent 6630507 Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants issued October 7, 2003 until February 2021.The government has created a monopoly on the medicinal value of cannabis while implementing the dynamics of double speak and the tactics of a police state to maintain the grip and trump the legality and illegality of either constraint. The government is simultaneously holding two contradictory themes believing, exploiting, and profiting from them both. (Classic double speak)
The system will create as many income streams in which expansion of the government bureaucracy will super-exploit from both ends of the spectrum. Every time someone is arrested for cultivation, distributing and possession, it justifies the criminal actions of the government to protect their patent by either criminal prosecution or civil actions when in fact to make something criminal that is not a crime in the first place is the real criminal act.
“A true dichotomy of truth and lies.” The supreme hypocrisy!
The Federal government will use whatever means to continue this concubine to oblivion.
The alphabet agencies and the U.S. attorney are addicted to the seizure of monies, persons, and assets for the majority of their budgets rely on prohibition laws and will fight vigorously to keep the status quo. It is apparent after forty years of waging a war on drugs it has become a lost cause. The War on Drugs was never meant to be won it was designed to be a perpetual forever.
Costing taxpayers at this time six hundred dollars per second, the cost of war rages on.
Nothing has changed but the increasing costs of war, the propaganda, and the lies.
All of this will be paid for by the taxpayer and that is you and me. The numbers look real good in the newspapers or on a government statistical ledger of how many were arrested and the revenues of seizure. All of these professionals that are involved in this lair of systematic assembly line justice merely support or increase the price of contraband that they determined to eliminate from society. A giant control system grid created for outlaws and outlawed molecules.
The foundations of career building that is as endless as time itself. The war on drugs is an infinite forever conducted as a government inquisitional witch-hunt by the self-indignant, self-righteous and self sanctimonious thought police with impunity from the crimes they commit in the process to vindicate their existence, jobs, and budgets.
In history men have justified their professions on the foundation of lies and the basis and tenents of money. History has not changed.
E.B.
Many have said of Alchemy, that it is for the making of gold and silver. For me such is not the aim, but to consider only what virtue and power may lie in medicines.
Paracelsus
You know after thinking about this article a bit, all I can say is these people in the DEA must be high on something extremely demonic.
“Greed is good” – Gordon Geckko
TO: 53 Mesquite, and everyone else reading here …
FWIW, everything that you have stated is true. So, the $64.00 question is: What are we going to do about it?
As painful as it would be to many people, I rather like the idea of using the issue of raising the national debt ceiling by 04 March 2011 as an opportunity to defund the DEA. If “our” politicians will just refuse to raise the debt ceiling, there are all sorts of fascist Big Brother (Big Sister?) Big Government programs that could be shut down: the TSA & the DHS, the DEA, any further funding of USA involvement in the Iraq / Afghanistan / Pakistan / Yemen conflicts, close down the 700+ overseas military bases we have erected in support of “our” form of mercantile colonialism, and maybe even slash CIA / NSA / FBI domestic spying and bring that long-elusive “peace dividend” to our Military Industrial Complex that should have happened after WW2 and especially at the end of the Cold War.
These changes alone would cut more than $2 Trillion USD out of the USA budget — what’s not to like about that?
Of course this will not happen. Big Pharma has been “gifted” by both Republican (Medicare Part D) and Democratic (Obamacare) regimes. And here we go again, with Big Pharma’s next big win. There ought to be a law against the level of influence that crony corporations have over the USA government, through “our” politicians. Just as we have seen the Too Big To Fail Bankers and Wall Street Mobsters rewarded for their “bad behavior”, which resulted in the economic meltdown of 2008.
It is corporate welfare, from a Federal government now established by, for, and of the crony corporate kleptocrats. The best long term solution is to “throw the bums out”; that is to say vote every corrupt politician out of office. That would take an educated electorate dedicated to the task — hardly a “slam dunk” considering the sad state of our MainStream Media.
It has been an ongoing surprise to read these posts and see so many people people complaining about pharmaceutical companies *gasp* lobbying the government to attempt to get the best results for their own bottom line.
Considering that every other industry in the country engages in this behavior, should we really be surprised?
Quit being pissed at big business and start being pissed at government. We did not elect corporations and we cannot change them. But we did elect our officials and we can have an impact there.
And if your mad because a minority of people have the majority of money and the rest of us have just enough or not enough, then try harder.
The potential for generating wealth in this country is unrestrained. There are no limits on how much you can make. And that is not just for corporations, it is for all of us.
Does anyone need that much money? No. Is it possible? Absolutely. That is why people come here from everywhere else.
The ones we should be pissed at are the government and specifically the DEA. The pharmaceutical industry is only doing what every other industry does. Try to make as much money as possible. Focusing your anger on them will do nothing to affect the outcome.
The DEA is the enemy here. This rescheduling is an attempt to outlaw marijuana while at the same time embracing it. That way they can get rid of this “medical marijuana nonsense” and get back in the business of busting pot smokers.
If you want to make a change, quit trying to justify your broke ass by attacking the rich and focus your anger where it will actually make a difference; at the people we elected and those they appointed to work on our behalf.
We could all be rich in this country if we all had the ambition. But for most of us, money is not everything. If you do want it though, go for it. Outside of a bit of red tape, there is nothing stopping you.
Otherwise, quit muddying the debate with your bad-them-poor-me-arguments.
@Bill, this is a loss not a win or a step in the right direction. You missed the point. The reclassification gives big Pharma total control to create a THC pill for ya! Much in the same way the opium kaiser to make morphine legallybut you can’t start an opium farm yourself…
So this is going to give similar control of Marijuana to Pharma.. It’s a win/win for DEA/Pharma
I wonder if we’ll have any good pot in FEMA camp?
SAY NOOO
Everything they engineer is poison, hence the problem we are in now. I will forever order my buds online from a source I know is legit and organic cannabusiness@hushmail.com has always came through and I test his buds for chemical content and it is 100% organic
DONT FALL FOR CHEMICAL WEED ITS AN OXYMORON
Big Pharma controlled and manipulated its illegality – now – it will control and manipulate its legality.
“They’re going for the ‘real stuff’ – the stuff that works.” That phony synthetic they’ve been pushin’ ain’t worth shit.
So! I lift my glass to toast my prophecy which has come to fruition. I wasn’t sure I would see it in my time.
“One of these days – you will be able to walk into a pharmacy with a prescription – and – walk out with your medicine in a white paper bag – like everyone else without shame.
The question, of – “why’ – Michele Lionart is so determined to eliminate collectives and dispensaries, now becomes very apparent. She’s clearing the way [eliminating the competition] for big pharma to move in [muscle in], and take over. Dear God – save us from this evil.
Yo Nina,
Why bullshit us? You can not sell weed on line.
Offline/Online does Ms. Hillary Clinton inhale?
A nice exercise of power by the DEA. They’ll tell us the correct THC to ingest. Oi.
What fact we tend to put aside [is] traditional medicine. Traditional medicine [will] be the only way one can get a prescription filled at the pharmacy. Traditional medicine will be more complete by examination, and more specific in application for a medical condition. In other words – ya better have a pretty good owey – besides – the breeze makes you nervous and pot calms you down.
“MARIJUANA [whole plant material] IS A FEDERALLY ILLEGAL AS A SCHEDULE I SUBSTANCE – AND – FEDERAL CHARGES WILL BE APPLIED TO ALL OFFENSES.”
“THC IS AS LEGAL AS ANY DRUG. ONCE THE THC IS EXTRACTED FROM THE WHOLE PLANT MATERIAL – WHAT YOU HAVE LEFT IS HEMP [The most nutritious complete whole food known to man].” Is government prohibiting healthy food? Where’s Michele Obama when you need her?
1 TO 3
SHIT OR
GET OFF
THE POT.
It looks like that chant and T-shirt works.
The DEA has firmly [finally] authorized the FDA to placed THC [an already legal substance] in schedule III. Now it’s in the right church, and the right pew. Health and Human Services should rule and cannabis should be treated as a health issue – not a law enforcement issue. But – hold on! not everybody is on the same page yet.
Another chapter in “As the Plutocracy Turns”. Follow the money but in the modern workplace, check your constitutional rights at the door. I got a ball and chain around my waist attached to my wallet, my electrontic monitering device cell phone, and a microscope scrutinizing everything that comes out of my dink. Shit, now, 235 years later, we need a mandate to protect us from big business. I guarantee you they’re organized. Can you say Business Roundtable and college republicans? A grown up version of the Hitler Youth. Devil Weed? I didn’t know Satan could create? He can’t in my Bible. Man made beer, God made pot. In God I trust.
Pardon my spellin. Please see above comment. 🙂
I’ll get it right one of these days. Mother Natures way of saying “Hi”.
The FDA had recommended that Cannabis be turned into Schedule 3 instead of Schedule 1 last year.
They can’t do that because it has been declared by Eric Holder and Jocelyn Elders and everybody else that is trying to move up the ladder,are saying pot has no medicinal value.
Therefore to me, it seems like Big Pharma can’t touch it. Am I correct on this?
and the raids continue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V–tz3IMCY4&feature=player_embedded#at=22
The War on Drugs Smokescreen:
To get your guns. http://yodonbleekraps.com/2010/12/16/breaking-news-police-raid-waka-flockas-home-weed-guns-found
[Paul Armentano responds: False. The FDA has made no such recommendation, nor would they have the legal authority to do so. The DEA has proposed reclassifying plant-derived THC from schedule I to schedule III under federal law, if the plant derivative is contained in an FDA-approved product. I’ve written about this proposal and its implications here: http://www.alternet.org/drugs/150009.%5D
It’s a shame that the human brain can’t think of everything at once. So! here’s what I didn’t think of at the moment. In what other of their products can Big Pharma include THC – aspirin with THC – beer with THC – liniment with THC – virtually anything with THC. Alcohol has been attempting to include it in beer for some time now. I suppose tobacco would love to get it in cigarettes. It’s simply an enigma – unless – Rockefeller and DuPont have some personal vendetta against it.
Michele the Mole,
Michele Leonhart has consistently turned down research into the therapeutic and medicinal benefits of marijuana, and has a track record of “undermining state law” with regard to legal medical marijuana. Recently several pro-legalisation agencies have called on President Obama to withdraw his support of Leonhart, including SSDP, MPP, NORML, LEAP, and DPA. Many people point to Leonhart’s claim that marijuana caused her cousin’s death as root of her opposition.
Well! Ain’t she in denial, and prejudiced as well! I guess they don’t care about putting the fox in charge of the hen house in D.C.[Deadly Corrupt]. It’s the “undermining of state law” that convinces us of her involvement with Big Pharma. She will without a doubt
pave the way for Big Pharma with the Supremacy Clause.
Just think about what their doing for a second. By allowing a THC derived drug to enter the market place to treat the medical symptoms of nasuea and vomiting of certain pateints they in turn are stating that THC does par take in having a scientific and medical purpose. Hopefully time will tell because the DEA is too afraid of what drug cartels will do with out there harmless cash crop
IF I WERE A FLY ON THE WALL IN THE CAPOS OFFICE.
Boys!!! – government just tied down the legal cannabis market with “fuck the pot heads.” They said – let’s just give this to Health and Human Services so the FDA can cut a deal with the DEA to reschedule the “whole plant extract” to a schedule III substance – but – leave the whole plant material in schedule I – making it federally illegal for any reason or purpose [and possessions would constitute a federal felony]. Look! let’s get Old Miss to provide our “Pharma golf buddies” the ability to produce a pill from the natural extract of the organic whole plant material.
“THE PILL!”
Traditional medicine can write a prescription [with dosage] after a thorough exam – and – pharmacy can dispense it in a amber pill bottle, in a white paper bag.
“IT’S A PILL!”
a very expensive pill – I’m sure Big Insurance will cover. Let’s put the pressure on the states to enact “NO HOME GROWN” legislation. That will cut off that competition. We won’t even give the pot heads “fake” marijuana. We will put that in schedule I with the real deal. We will use our governmental “Supremacy Clause” over state sovereignty. Our primary target is state sovereignty. We want their state sovereignty in our bird bag. We will shut the states down and apply federal law. Here’s the scenario:
There will always be the “plant.”
There will always be partakers of the “plant.”
There will always be arrests.
There will always be a judge.
There will always be an attorney and attorney fees.
There will always be court costs, fines and fees.
There will always be prisons to incarcerate.
The Justice Dept. will have a field day cleaning up – and – get more money added to their budget.
Boy!!! we will all get richer – and – fuck over the pot heads at the same time. Oh boy!!! this will be fun!!!
[Paul Armentano responds: To clarify, the DEA has not proposed rescheduling a ‘whole plant extract,’ only FDA-approved pharmaceutical products that contain either synthetic or naturally derived THC, which is only a single component of the plant.]
@ # 71; Quit being pissed at big business and start being pissed at government.
they are working together, hand-in-glove. it is called fascism (or corperatism).
@ # 71; And if your mad because a minority of people have the majority of money and the rest of us have just enough or not enough, then try harder.
Try to make as much money as possible.
quit trying to justify your broke ass by attacking the rich.
the rich only get that way / stay that way, by fucking the poor.
the rich own all the chain stores.
the rich own the rental property.
the rich loan money at interest to the poor.
this makes the rich, richer, and the poor, poorer.
every time you shop at wall-mart, does sam walton get poorer ? no. he gets a little richer.
it is an UPWARD RE-DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH.
@ # 71; The potential for generating wealth in this country is unrestrained. There are no limits on how much you can make.
that is exactly the whole problem in a nutshell; “unrestrained, no limits”.
this worked wonders for the banksters, with their billion dollar bonuses, while they crashed the country, but not so well for everyone else.
there used to be limits, there used to be high taxes (90%) on the rich,
the gov’t used to break up monopolies, and prevent them forming in the first place. too bad that stopped.
@ # 71; We could all be rich in this country if we all had the ambition.
that is a lie so obvious, a 10 year old could see through it.
the rich only get that way / stay that way, by fucking the poor.
if you give EVERYONE 100 million dollars, tomorrow;
why would garbagemen, plumbers, coal miners, and all others with hard, dirty, or menial jobs, ever work again ??
they would’nt, they are rich, now, so they will not want to get their hands dirty, or waste their time toiling.
just like a kingdom with 10,000 kings and queens, but no serfs / servants.
who will plant the crops ?
who will cook ?
who will wash the dishes ?
who will build the castle walls ?
who will dig latrines ?
who will sew the kingly clothes and robes ?
who will mine gold for the crowns and septers ?
no one.
kings need serfs.
the rich need the poor.
the poor do not need the rich.
the rich are PARASITES on the poor.
“Quit being pissed at big business and start being pissed at government. We did not elect corporations and we cannot change them. But we did elect our officials and we can have an impact there.”
-So supporting a company isn’t the same as electing an official? We cannot change the corporations? What if we, the people, decided that we would no longer buy what they sell? Oh, that’s right they’d probably get a bailout.
“And if your mad because a minority of people have the majority of money and the rest of us have just enough or not enough, then try harder.”
-To some it’s more than just about money and power. You speak as if everyone that comments here is poor and uneducated and I for one can assure you that you are sorely mistaken.
“The potential for generating wealth in this country is unrestrained. There are no limits on how much you can make. And that is not just for corporations, it is for all of us.”
“Generating wealth?” -In a country that is 14 TRILLION in the red to date. You tell me how that sounds. Can you see the forest?
“Does anyone need that much money? No. Is it possible? Absolutely. That is why people come here from everywhere else”
-Right, that’s the only reason why they come?
“The DEA is the enemy here.”-So now you’ve called the DEA the enemy in a WAR on drugs? Think about that for a second.
“If you want to make a change, quit trying to justify your broke ass by attacking the rich and focus your anger where it will actually make a difference; at the people we elected and those they appointed to work on our behalf.”
-Who makes most of the contributions to these elected officials? Say I allocate $100 and someone else spends $10,000+ who do you think the ear of concern is given to? You act as if it’s the person who pays $100 that should be frowned upon because they’re unable to give more.
“We could all be rich in this country if we all had the ambition. But for most of us, money is not everything. If you do want it though, go for it. Outside of a bit of red tape, there is nothing stopping you.”
-Ambition. You call socio-pathic views ambitious? In order for one to succeed many have to fail. Is that me deciding this? No, it’s the way it is. Rich? I guess that depends on another’s definition of what rich is. Monetarily? Spiritually? Oh, that’s right everyone has their price.
Maybe if you would cease from your rich-know-all comments then we could have a real discussion on a topic that involves more than just the figure head.
Response to 90 and 91
You are right, they are in bed together but they are still not the same entity. I was mistaken saying that we can’t change corporations. We can, but we have to do it through government and the courts.
And I don’t agree that we live in a fascist country. I used to listen to Alex Jones on occasion. I heard all his kooky conspiracy theories about the government and fascism, etc. It has been at least 10 years and not one of them has came true. There are still no black helicopters invading our cities and we are not being herded into FEMA camps.
Or democracy may not be perfect but it is far from fascism.
As to the poor, I had a long conversation with a friend recently about it and we came to a realization; providing the poor with money is secondary to providing them with hope. Things have been so bad for so long that they believe that the situation cannot improve. The only way I think that this can change is one person at a time. Teachers and community leaders are the best hope for turning this around.
You bring the ultra wealthy down to the level of the wealth and the middle class still feels screwed. You bring the wealthy down further to the level of the middle class and the poor still feel screwed. So you bring the middle class down to the level of the poor and we all feel screwed.
Bringing everyone down to the same level essentially equals socialism. And I don’t like socialism either. Think you are disgusted with the government now? Imagine if that happened.
And the only reason the poor are getting fucked is because it takes money to live. But until you can give them that hope, throwing all the money in the world at the problem won’t fix it.
One more point about the poor. Having lived a large part of my life in South Texas, I saw many illegal aliens passing through. They made their way through harsh conditions with little or no money. They did it because they had belief, hope, and courage. And because they made that journey, they have a better life, their families back home have a better life, and they found opportunities they could have never imagined.
Oh, and Sam Walton is dead, by the way. But yes, his heirs and investors are still making a ton from the retail empire he created.
I am sorry that you feel that there is not opportunity in this country for everyone. There are some very inspirational stories of people who had a unique idea that they believed in and worked to make it happen. And sometimes they did not even have a belief. They just worked hard and climbed a ladder and managed to get to the top. I am sure there are more, but three people who come to mind are Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Gordon Bethune (the one time CEO of continental airlines). I admire these three guys because money did not just land in their lap. They worked hard and they made things happen for themselves.
As far as who would do the difficult work, that is transitory work. It is meant to get a person from point A to point B. And if there is no one to wash the dishes or cook the food, that would be a great thing. It would mean that people would need to learn to do it for themselves again.
And if you think the poor don’t need the rich, you are very very wrong. Until they believe that they deserve better and strive for it, those menial jobs are important.
Are they as wealthy as a corporation? No (Well maybe Bill Gates is) but they have more than they can possibly need. But Gates does use that wealth to fund many humanitarian efforts.
And a 90% tax on anyone is outrageous. I have not done any research on your claim, but off the top of my head it sounds like a ridiculous number.
Large bank accounts don’t just belong to faceless suits hiding behind a corporations, a lot of times, they belong to the people spreading the hate for those corporations. And many times it is people I admire. Like Michael Moore. His movies are hit or miss for me (I really really liked Bowling for Columbine), but there is no doubt that he is sitting on a boatload of money for the movies he has made.
I think I covered all the items you pointed out for discussion. I had intended to get back to post 91 but reading over what I have written here, I think I already addressed them. Besides, all this thinking is hurting my brain 🙂
I’ll look again later and if not I’ll get back to it.
Have a good night.
Actually, I will go ahead and respond to 91 because some of the points vary.
“So supporting a company isn’t the same as electing an official? We cannot change the corporations? What if we, the people, decided that we would no longer buy what they sell? Oh, that’s right they’d probably get a bailout.”
Yes, we can stop supporting corporations. We can stop buying their products. I imagine that one of two things would happen:
A) They would break themselves up into smaller businesses with new names and we would have no idea and continue to unknowingly support them anyway or…
B) They would move overseas. I heard a story on Morning Edition recently about Yum! Brands (the owners of Pizza Hut and Kentucky Fried Chicken) and it has become the largest restaurant chain in the country. And China is no small country.
So despite what we think we may be able to do to hurt these corporations, they will continue and most likely they will do so without a bailout. There are not any industries left with so little competition that a bailout could be justified as “too big to fail”. But I reserve the right to still be surprised.
And I am no fan of bailouts or any wasted tax payer money for that point. It makes me furious. To think that our politicians spent almost a year working on health care reform and that Republicans want to try and undo it makes me mad as hell. Not that I care so much about health care reform but more that they seem to have no respect for the tax money that funded them while they slung it out. Now they want to reverse that as if the money spent was not important? Yes, that is infuriating.
“To some it’s more than just about money and power. You speak as if everyone that comments here is poor and uneducated and I for one can assure you that you are sorely mistaken.”
“Generating wealth?” -In a country that is 14 TRILLION in the red to date. You tell me how that sounds. Can you see the forest?
I don’t accuse anyone of being poor and uneducated. I don’t know anyone who comments here well enough to make that claim. What I am responding to is the pointless yelling about wealthy corporations that has no impact. It does not add to the discussion about how to stop the DEA from getting a THC pill rescheduled so that they can say “Here, Mr. President. Here is your medical marijuana. Can we go back to California and Colorado and Washington and start busting pot smokers again, please?” And they will, with even more relish because of the victory they have achieved.
The recent retaliation of the DEA against the cartels for the death of one of their officers (and all the pot that was confiscated as a result) could very well affect the supply of marijuana across the country. If they continue with this renewed vigor, medical marijuana may well be the only reasonably accessible marijuana left in the country. Do we really want to allow them to take that, too?
I would be very upset with myself if while the DEA was shutting down the only thing close to legal pot we had, I missed it because I was so busy pointing my finger at the wrong people.
And back to my earlier point, I assume that most people here have abandoned the mainstream media as I have and choose more facts over sensational news coverage. I cheer them on, but I encourage them to keep a more narrow focus. If we have to pick our battles, pharmaceutical companies are the least of our worries at the moment, especially if you happen to be lucky enough to live in a state that has medical marijuana. Because that fight is coming. The DEA does not like it, most law enforcement does not like it, and they are looking for a way to start breaking down doors again.
I get upset about people placing the blame for their own unhappiness on others. When I say that you can have whatever you want in this country, I think everyone realizes it is true. No corporation can stop anyone from succeeding.
And if it is about more about money and power, why are so many people complaining in these posts about those exact things?
And to the fourteen trillion dollar debt, how many of us actually feel that? That debt is a scary thing that will bite us in the ass eventually, but how many people do you know that conduct their lives as if there is a constant debt hanging over us? It needs to be addressed. I agree.
We have multiple wars occurring now along with that debt. In WWII, people were expected to make sacrifices through rationing. What have we been asked to sacrifice for these wars? Nothing but freedoms. The wars go on and the debt continues to rise. That is wrong, and our government is wholly responsible for it.
With or without corporate interference, our government is to blame and should be held accountable.
“-Right, that’s the only reason why they come? ”
I have not done any research, but I would guess that the two main reasons people migrate to the United States is to escape persecution (political or religious) or to generate wealth. And when I say generate wealth, I mean to create a better life for themselves. Wealth tends to be a relative term viewed through the lens of ones own environment. What looks like a pittance to you or I may appear as a treasure to someone from somewhere else.
““The DEA is the enemy here.”-So now you’ve called the DEA the enemy in a WAR on drugs? Think about that for a second.”
I like to smoke pot and wish to be able to do so without having to go to a dealer and have my selection limited by whatever he happens to have on hand. Since I don’t live in a state that allows for medical marijuana, I am not in that situation. And the reason for that is that marijuana is illegal. The lumber companies may have made it illegal, the pharmaceutical companies may want to keep it illegal. But it is the DEA that enforces those those laws. So yes, they are the enemy.
“-Who makes most of the contributions to these elected officials? Say I allocate $100 and someone else spends $10,000+ who do you think the ear of concern is given to? You act as if it’s the person who pays $100 that should be frowned upon because they’re unable to give more. ”
First of all, I made no mention of political donations much less suggest an amount. No doubt we are up against lobbyists when we are trying to get out voices heard. But if we assumed your statements were correct then black people would still be using separate bathrooms and women would not be voting. Revolution has occurred in this country many times since we broke ties with Britain. And it can happen again, with focus.
“-Ambition. You call socio-pathic views ambitious? In order for one to succeed many have to fail. Is that me deciding this? No, it’s the way it is. Rich? I guess that depends on another’s definition of what rich is. Monetarily? Spiritually? Oh, that’s right everyone has their price.”
No I don’t equate ambition with sociopaths. That is a ridiculous argument. I don’t know if anyone has to fail in order for anyone to succeed. If I had to think about that, I would be afraid to try. I get the idea that you think that people should feel guilty about their success. Success if a wonderful thing and possibly the only thing that can give self esteem.
Why should monetary wealth a bad thing? Especially if it is worked for and earned? If I were to offer you a pat on the back for a job well done with one hand and $100 with the other, which would you take? If you choose the hundred dollar bill, guess what? It’s okay. That does not make you a bad person. It just makes you like everyone else. Even as terrifying as that may be to your sense of individuality.
“Maybe if you would cease from your rich-know-all comments then we could have a real discussion on a topic that involves more than just the figure head.”
I don’t think the rich know all, but I also don’t hate them for being rich. It just makes me feel a little sad that when we get frustrated we tend to attack whoever is a convenient target instead of actually focusing our frustration where it would do the most good.
I love these conversations. Sometimes I learn things I did not even know I knew just by sitting down and typing. I feel more educated after responding to your post than I did when I made the post you responded to. Thanks for the opportunity to respond 🙂
What comes around goes around. It’s universal law and no one that is human escapes it. Morality is everything. The DEA is a very corrupt organization. What goes around comes around.
The government has shamed the creator and his creations.
Ray DiPasquale / E.B.
No one will dare maintain that it is better to do injustice than to bear it.
Aristotle
“Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.” ~Albert Einstein
Nature is the physician not you. From her you must learn, not from yourself. She compounds the remedies not you. See to it that you find out where Nature has her pharmacies, where her virtues have been written down, and in what boxes they are stored.
Paracelsus
Fair enough gante good day to you.
gante Says: fascism = FEMA camps.
no it doesn’t.
fascism = GOV’T AND CORP.’s working together against the citizens.
gante Says: illegal aliens had belief, hope and courage.
they were eager to undercut the us minimum wage.
(they are as eager to fuck the us workers, as the employers that hire them are)
no belief, hope or courage needed for that.
if i could go to mexico, and live comfortably, getting HALF the wages of a mexican, i could take THEIR job, too.
gante Says: We could all be rich in this country if we all had the ambition.
O.K. !! ASSUME THAT YOU ARE RIGHT, AND THEY ALL DID IT, AND THAT NOW, WE ARE ALL RICH. !!
EVERYONE IS RICH !! YEAH !!
(rich = more money than you could ever possibly need / use.)
SO, NOW THAT WE WE ARE ALL RICH,
WHO DOES THE DIRTY WORK ??
WHO NEEDS A DIRTY, MENIAL JOB, OR ANY JOB, WHEN THEY ARE RICH ?? NO ONE.
gante Says: And the only reason the poor are getting fucked is because it takes money to live.
YES !! when we get ‘star trek’ replicators, and unlimited, free energy to run them with,
we can ALL LIVE LIKE KINGS, and nobody will have to work.
untill then, KINGS NEED SERFS to do the dirty work that the kings WILL NOT DO FOR THEMSELVES.
gante Says: I get upset about (poor) people placing the blame for their own unhappiness on (rich) others.
SO THE RICH, FUCKING THE POOR, DOESN’T UPSET YOU AT ALL,
BUT THE POOR, COMPLAINING ABOUT IT, DOES UPSET YOU !!
NO WONDER YOUR HEAD HURTS !!
gante Says: all this thinking is hurting my brain.
America, what comes around goes around, Liberty is yours until the great fall of the country!